Space Odyssey 1969. Interview with Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin

Yesterday was 45 years since the first man’s landing on the surface of the Moon in history. For this occasion, I publish a translation of an interview with the first two people who landed on the moon, published in honor of the 35th anniversary of the historical odyssey, in the French magazine Espace (Cosmos), in the not so distant 2004. In it, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin share their memories of the lunar program, as well as the vision of the future (and not seldom the prophetic) of world cosmonautics. The photos are the same as those published in the journal, but found in the digital version.

Neil Armstrong. Apollo 11 Commander

For almost all people on earth, Neil Armstrong is first and foremost “the first man on the moon.” What does one of the most famous inhabitants of this planet think of this definition?
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Neil Armstrong is quite calm and even wise about the fact that he is known "only" as "the first man on the moon", and he hopes that historians will respect the inviolability of his private life.

However, from its natural modesty, the legendary astronaut opposes the trends of the Apollo program’s reduction to its status of “first man on the moon”, stressing that he was a member of a team of 400,000 people who had worked on the Apollo program for a decade. Armstrong wisely realizes that he and his team played the "most visible", but not the most important role in this program.

Therefore, the main message of this interview is reliable in that humanity will remember the first steps of Neil Armstrong as the result of the tremendous work of all the men and women who worked on the Apollo program.

According to one of the legends of NASA, when Kennedy visited the places of future developments for the Moon program, he asked one of the workers who washed the floor:

- “What is your job?”
- “I send people to the moon.”

True or fiction, but the legend symbolizes well what the Apollo program was: the most amazing teamwork of the space era of the 20th century!

Espace magazine: No one considers pilots X 15 to be astronauts. However, given your experience of flying the X 15 and the Gemini and Apollo spacecraft, what do you think was the difference between these types of machines?

Neil Armstrong participated in the program X 15, controlling airplanes with rocket engines, which at a height of 100 km developed a speed of 6 max (1m approximately corresponds to the speed of sound)


Neil Armstrong: Starting with the work on the Mercury program, American astronauts have tried to ensure that the spacecraft control systems are as close as possible to the aircraft cabin. Thus, the cabin of the spacecraft looked familiar to them. However, there is a significant difference. Airplanes usually fly strictly forward, with the cabin in the direction of motion. Spaceships have no such restrictions. Being in space, the cockpit can be directed both perpendicularly and in the direction opposite to the direction of flight. In science fiction films, you can often see a spaceship tilting like an airplane to change course. Real spacecraft would have no reason for such "maneuvers."

Espace Magazine: On the Moon, the lunar module's take-off engine should have helped you return to the moon's orbit. Were procedures foreseen if the takeoff would have been impossible?

Neil Armstrong: We were hoping for a successful outcome and had not planned any procedures for such a case. However, for the crew in such a situation it was possible to ensure communication with their relatives and then painlessly reduce the pressure in the cockpit provoking loss of consciousness. (The readers probably understood that it is a question of euthanasia, an explanation of the translator).
But again, no procedures have been planned for this case.

Espace Magazine: You are a person with a personal history and a complex inner world. Were you ready to be “simplified” as “the first man on the moon,” and how do you feel about this?

One of the rare shots of Neil Armstrong taken on the surface of the moon. 16mm camera lunar module.


Neil Armstrong: Most of the people to whom society pays special attention are only known for their main merits. Basically, the society ignores other aspects of the life of these people or their merits. I do not seem fruitful attempts to change this natural characteristic of man. I hope and expect that, in the end, historians will understand this more or less correctly.

Espace Magazine: On board Gemini 8, you are faced with a critical situation, when the capsule began an uncontrolled rotation. You risked your life while flying on an LLRV and landed a lunar module with computer crashes. This clearly demonstrates the image of the hero, permanently meeting face to face with danger. At the same time, you constantly repeat that the 400,000 people who worked on the Apollo program are the real heroes. Can you say more about this?

Vertical landing module on the moon, LLRV, on which Arsmtrong flew. In the video below, the moment of Armstrong ejection



Neil Armstrong: Spaceships are very complex devices consisting of several thousand elements. Even if they meet all standards of reliability, in real flight, you can face a significant number of failures and equipment failures. Spacecraft crews spend most of their time preparing for flights, practicing emergency response techniques. Although more than a hundred different failures and breakdowns could occur during normal space flights, this was only a small fraction of the statistically foreseeable failures. In my opinion, such improvements that increase the reliability of space systems were associated with the serious and meticulous work of the people who designed, tested and tested these ships. And of course those people who prepared the ships for flight. We will never be able to fully thank these talented people.

Neil Armstrong before the flight, he is assisted by 4 people from the 400,000 team that worked on the Apollo program. As Armstrong said above, "We can never fully thank these talented people."


Espace magazine: You witnessed the decline of manned space flight in the United States after the Apollo program and, in particular, recently commented on NASA's plans to return to the moon: “Our economy can certainly allow us such investments, but society must believe that such investments are worth it.” Space is an important part of our daily life, but society seems to have lost interest in space research as a source of innovation and the will to progress. Can you share an idea, how can you again initiate public interest in space?

Neil Armstrong: People are always interested in new and interesting ideas. From a realistic point of view, this interest does not last long. Any program to increase human presence in space - such as creating a forward base on the moon and exploring Mars - will arouse deep interest among most of humanity.
The first explorations of the Moon were the aftermath of the two systems' competition in the Cold War. I hope that we will not go to such an extreme to initiate a new space age of humanity.

Buzz Aldrin. The pilot of the lunar module

"Great devastation." Said by Buzz Olndrin for the first time stepping on the lunar surface, go down in history as the most poetic and at the same time factual description of our natural satellite.

Forever remaining a member of the Apollo 11 crew, and one of the first people to come to the moon with Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin looks to the future. Recalling the programs of Gemini and Apollo, we also shared the vision of a grand future, in which space stations have a place, the study of asteroids and man’s stay on Mars. All this looks more than natural in the eyes of a man whose mother was called Marion Moon.

Espace Magazine: This interview takes place against the backdrop of the festival of the Adventures of Jules Verne. As you know, he wrote "From Earth to the Moon." How does this book inspire you?

Buzz Aldrin: Science fiction writers like Jules Verne and the others after him inspired us greatly as they stimulated our curiosity. When I decided to write a science fiction work “Meeting with Tiber,” I analyzed what had already been done. And I think that the pioneers of the genre like Jules Verne, HG Wells, the creation of Buck Rogers, Flush Gordon or Tintin tried to foresee the future as realistic as possible. Modern authors of science fiction, in turn, try to be more sensational than their colleagues. Therefore, we observe a tendency towards large-scale conflicts and disasters on the pages of their works. This is all we want to avoid. We want the cosmos to be calm and peaceful. Therefore, in my science fiction work, I tried to be as close as possible to the reality of the future, at the same time, forcing the reader to think.

Espace Magazine: Could you tell us the storyline of your book?

Buzz Aldrin: "Meeting with Tiber" tells the story of a fictional civilization that arrived on Earth from the nearest star system thousands of years ago, as their world perished. Some of their technologies found by humans have led to an understanding of the mechanisms of interstellar travel. I appealed to the possibility of traveling at about relativistic speeds (the speed of light). Therefore, when John Burns and I worked on the book in the 96th year, we analyzed all possible ways and came to the decision to “use” the energy of the vacuum. Last week, in the magazine “Week of Aeronautics”, a three-page article was published on vacuum energy and the possibility of its use in the future. It was nice to see that the choice we made for the plot of the book was so carefully substantiated in the scientific publication.

Espace Magazine: Speaking of preparing for the future, you participated as an astronaut in Gemini’s program, a very important step on the way to the Apollo program. What do you remember from your participation in the program?

Buzz Aldrin: My efforts to improve my military career were focused on vocational training. I was already familiar with the interception technique between two fighters, and I shot down two MiG-15 in Korea. Therefore, in 1959, choosing a doctoral dissertation topic at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, I was able to concentrate efforts on the technique of rendezvous and docking of spacecraft. When I was selected for space flight, I knew that it would be very important for the Gemini program and hoped that I could fly during the first missions. However, I could not achieve this. In order to select a team for a space flight, I was part of the backup crew of Gemini 10. The tragic death of the crew of Gemini 9 in a plane crash caused me and Jim Lovell to be appointed as the backup crew of the new Gemini 9 group, and then the main crew of Gemini 12. Thus, a confluence of circumstances allowed me to be a member of this mission. We have been waiting for a lot from the spacewalk with AMU (Astronaut's Individual Maneuvering System, pictured below ).


I was very disappointed when NASA canceled this experiment. It was one of two moments when I regretted not being able to do anything. I experienced the following disappointments when NASA planned a space shuttle with an orbiter and two booster blocks, each of which had separate cabins for two pilots to bring them back to the landing strip. This program has been canceled as too complicated and expensive. I still could not present logical arguments in favor of the fact that it was possible to do without a crew in order to land the booster blocks.

Espace Magazine: You mentioned your experience as a fighter pilot. What is the difference between air combat and space flight?

Buzz Aldrin: There is a lot of uncertainty in aerial combat. In battle, you are alone and no one can help you in a substantial way. For space flights, there are a huge number of simulators, simulations and repetitions of events that are actually not developing so rapidly. During the launch of the rocket or return to Earth, the crew for the most part only observes and does not control the situation. The big difference lies in the tremendous support of the astronauts by ground crews at the MCC, against the background of complete loneliness of the combat pilot in the battle over enemy territory. But at the same time, during the expedition to Mars, the signal delay will be much more significant, which will require a high level of autonomy of the entire crew. Therefore, I support the idea that the first expeditions should concentrate on Phobos and Deimos, the satellites of Mars. Mainly, it is important to reduce the time of information exchange with automated systems on the surface of Mars: before you get ready, you will want to be sure that everything that helps you return to Earth will be ready! For example, the fact that fuel extracted on Mars by robotized systems is produced in sufficient quantities. For the safety of the crew, it will be safer to “dig in” on the satellites of Mars, and from there control the entire process.

Espace Magazine: Since we are talking about satellites, let me remind you that many suggest using the Earth's Moon as the first step on the way to Mars.

Buzz Aldrin: It is necessary to master the procedures for interplanetary travel while staying close to our planet. Collect spacecraft in orbit, protect crews from cosmic radiation, and study both the sociological and psychological consequences of man’s separation from the Earth. All this can be developed, for example, at the Lagrange point L 1, between the Earth and the Moon (where the Earth and the Moon balance each other). L 1 is not always a good starting point for a flight to Mars, but the orbital station at this place could serve Martian ships, for example, providing them with fuel produced on the Moon. From there, the ship would go into orbit waiting around the Earth, which would give the green light to be sent to Mars (we are talking about the Earth MCC).

Espace Magazine: We are seeing an increasing trend towards the use of modular concepts in astronautics. In this vein, instead of creating large-sized ships, space agencies will launch small modules that are joined in orbit. Can this be considered a harbinger of the future of world cosmonautics?

Buzz Aldrin: In 1985, the National Commission for the Analysis of the Prospects of Astronautics concluded that we need a space station in Earth orbit, also a station in the orbit of the Moon, and finally a station in the orbit of Mars. However, our experience in building the ISS station suggests that we must minimize the proportion of elements collected in orbit. Collecting preferably large finished items, rather than small ones. During the Apollo missions, we took the entire lunar complex into orbit at a time, so we didn’t have to gradually collect everything in orbit for several docks. Moreover, the Earth orbit is far from the most optimal for a starting point. Although it does not seem justified to increase the carrying capacity of modern carriers to the level of Saturn 5, assembling modules separately launched to point L 1 or to Earth orbit and then to the Moon and Mars only complicates the whole process. Regarding reusable shuttles, disapproval was expressed that the cargo and crew were launched simultaneously, which reduced the flexibility of the space system. After analyzing the critical remarks, I came to the conclusion that the complaints for the most part are addressed not to what is being launched, but to what is returning to Earth. As already mentioned, the crew and the cargo, which are simultaneously launched, reduce the system's flexibility, but if the crew does not return after launch (as in the Space Shuttle system), but is part of the payload, then this solution is more than logical. Those who propose to launch the crew separately in a manned module, and technical modules for returning to Earth, actually support the idea of ​​using small launch vehicles for this purpose. This approach leads to a large number of module docking in orbit. I do not think that NASA will use several major transport systems to remove orbital modules. We must focus on one rocket system, which can be quickly reworked for a specific task. To do this, you can use the existing VAB (Vertical Assembly of Launch Vehicles), the launch positions 39A and 39B, respectively, used to launch the Apollo and Space Shuttle carriers, as well as build the 39C launch position in addition to the lunar or Martian missions . This is more logical than using EELV (launch of modular disposable rocket systems, Delta 4 and Atlas 5 launch vehicles). Our Starcraft Boosters group believes that the future manned ship CEV (now Orion) should launch from a super-heavy launch vehicle to reach Lagrange point L 1 .

On the Moon, July 21, 1969 Born at the birth of the name Edwin E. Aldrin, Buzz Aldrin changed his name in the 80s. Thus, he officially fixed the nickname which appeared because of his sister’s incorrect pronunciation of the word brother (“buzzer”, instead of “brother”)


Espace Magazine: The CEV you mentioned should bring people to the moon, which reminds us of the Apollo ships. Returning to the subject of lunar flights, how significant was the difference between what you experienced in flight and how it all was presented to society?

Buzz Aldrin: We participated in the program only as crew members. We did not take part either in the management or in making major decisions. We were trained to test and control space systems to achieve our goals. Of course, this led to the fact that we were the most prominent figures in the space program, almost a mouthpiece for explaining what we are doing all this for, and what is the point of this venture. That was the main difference. In fact, I just had to analyze how I could get from one point to another. But deciding why we do all this was already the prerogative of other people. However, as members of the crew, we were perceived by almost the main experts in this why . We only thought that we should do it, because it was our duty.

Espace Magazine: After you managed to land on the moon, what other challenge could you give yourself or what else could you dream of?

Buzz Aldrin: Thanks to Apollo 11, you not only fly to the Moon, but also become one of the first people to walk on it. Upon returning to Earth, you become very special in relationships with other people. Together with my two comrades, I was able to respond to a serious challenge by successfully completing a mission that 400,000 people worked on. And you also live with this unusual experience. This is a new challenge that I faced as a result of this expedition. I knew that for the rest of my life I would have to answer the question “what did you feel then?”. After all, there are recordings for video and sound, but not for human emotions! I remember those moments, but with age your memory only gets worse. Therefore, most often I remember when I last described my impressions. This is how our memory works, because every time you describe an event that you have experienced, you try to convey it the way you have experienced it. And next time you will try to do the same ... but it will be a little different!

Espace Magazine: Based on your experience, what advice would you give to the first people who will fly to Mars?

Buzz Aldrin: I think it will be quite difficult to maintain people's interest in such a long flight, and the signal transmission time will not be so operational due to the large removal of the red planet. These people will remain on Mars for a year and a half. If we want the base not to be empty for 5-6 months - such a lack of people will have a very negative impact on the base - perhaps the crew will have to wait for the second “window” to return to Earth, in this case their expedition will last from 4 to 5 years. Of course, this has little to do with the 8 days of the Apollo expedition.

Espace Magazine: Will the first people on Mars face challenges similar to yours when they return to Earth?

Buzz Aldrin: I think that by this time many astronauts should have flown to the moon. In the same way, we already had to fly to asteroids crossing the orbit of our planet in order to optimize the scientific and applied basis for the protection of our planet. By this, I mean what could have collided with our planet, the composition of asteroids, how to change its trajectory, or begin to extract the necessary resources. If people progressively explore outer space, then who will become the symbol of the next era? It is difficult to say how we could achieve something comparable to the flight of Yuri Gagarin and the influence that he had on Russia and the rest of the world. When Alan Shepard made his flight, it was our first experience, but he was already surpassed by the much more impressive flight of Gagarin. Although in the future there were other flights, but only an expedition to the moon attracted the special attention of journalists. And the moon landing, I tell you, was the easiest part of this program! And who got the main laurels for it? Massachusetts Institute of Technology and the computer! (laughs) And Nil, since he had to plant the module manually.

Espace Magazine: From your words, the Apollo 11’s stonework wasn’t as complicated as it seems

Buzz Aldrin: When we re-analyze what happened to Apollo 11, we come to a moment between 60-30 seconds before it is possible to cancel the landing, when the guys from Houston can not help us. They just watched. Of course, I realize the value of computer capabilities and the limited human response time in stressful situations. Time and technology are constantly changing. The Apollo 11 on-board computer was completely sufficient for a smooth landing of the Lunar Module on a flat lunar surface, but the crew could make changes at any time. The crews of Apollo 12-17 had a much more advanced autopilot than we were. The commanders of these expeditions do not like it when I say this, as it gives the impression that their flight was lighter than ours! So, when we took control of the lunar module, we fully realized how difficult for our computer is a soft landing on the moon. Such difficulties were foreseen during the tests, but in order to get a new landing program and a computer for the Apollo 11, it would take an additional month.

Espace magazine: We have your photo in the lunar module on the surface of the moon and you consider it your favorite. Why?

Buzz Aldrin: Because I'm young, cute and well-groomed! (laughs)


Espace Magazine: Which photo of the space age do you consider the closest to you?

Buzz Aldrin: It's hard to separate those pictures that do not relate to what I experienced. Neil deserves the most sincere compliments for the photographs he took on the moon. I do not think that subsequent expeditions could take more symbolic shots than those we did with Neil. After I noticed the tracks that left our steps on the moon, I decided to take a picture. Therefore, I had to do the following (Buzz Aldrin gets up from his chair and makes a small jump, landing on one leg) in order to get a clear mark ( photo below ).


One beautiful book recently saw the light, with superb reproductions of photographs. Unfortunately, the book was written in England, and I did not have time to help the author. Some comments on what I did on the moon are not accurate. In particular, it says that the most symbolic photo of the track was made by accident! But I did it completely consciously! If I had photographed only a random trace, it would have been barely noticeable.

PS Espace magazine (Cosmos) did not have an electronic version; below is a link of a similar interview taken by journalists of the same publication with Neil Armstrong in 2009.