“To become a successful copywriter, you need to be a marketer and psychologist”
Dmitry Kot is one of the most famous freelance copywriters in Runet, owner of the site mastertext.spb.ru and host of the “Secrets of Non-standard Promotion” newsletter on Subscribe.ru. I avidly read his website long before I created my own Kadrof.ru. Having agreed to the interview, I was so glad that I almost made up about 30 questions! I wanted to ask about everything at once. As a result, the interview turned out very long and interesting. It was possible to talk about freelancing, and about the profession of a copywriter, and, of course, about my favorite business - advertising.
Not calculated on the stock exchange
1. Tell us how you came to advertising? And how did you become a freelance copywriter?
From medical student, through writing articles for gloss to marketing and copywriting. The path is tortuous and thorny.
2. Have you had any office experience? And if so, why did you decide to leave in freelancing?
Yes, it was. Equally good attitude to work in the office, and to freelancing. On this account there are no strict principles and moral beliefs that only freelancing and nothing more. If life offers to work from 10 to 7 in the office - no problem. The harsh reality is that there are not so many clean freelancers. The bulk is office workers who work in their spare time for themselves.
3. As far as I know, most Russian advertisers do not have a specialized education. Many of them are mathematicians, physicists, chemists :) How did it happen in your case?
Similarly. I have a medical degree and additional marketing. An explosive mixture with an unpredictable effect.
4. Dmitry, do you use remote work exchanges such as Free-Lance.ru or Weblancer.net? To be honest, I have not seen your accounts on these sites, although
for many freelancers, remote work exchanges provide the majority of clients. You do not register on exchanges in principle or for some other reason?
I have an account on Free-Lance, sometimes I read a mailing list with projects, but I don’t expect much on these sites. They brought me no customer, although there was a time when he behaved very actively there. Too many freeloaders there. How can you take seriously a person who offers $ 1 per thousand characters of text? And there are plenty of such projects. Now in the public eye, a freelancer is a cheap performer. While there is such a stereotype, there will be such orders.
Need content!
5. Tell me, what services freelance copywriters, in your opinion, the most in demand now and what will be in demand in the future?
Now in great demand is content. People with violent fantasy call it ersatz texts. There is a demand, offers - more than enough, quality requirements are minimal. Those. Employees of the pen order text with the desired percentage of keywords. Everything. No other requirements. You can just steal the text from another site and rearrange the sentences in some places, you can pull from 3 sites and write a summary, you can invent it from your head. The requirement for texts is the same - keywords, and for executors of requirements 2 - low prices (the lower, the better) and the minimum terms of work (1-2 hours per text).
The second place in the popularity of texts in the full sense of the word. They are written for people and their difference from content is humanity. Here you can talk about beauty, style, selling power.
Then comes the creative in its pure form: ideas, slogans, etc. The most exotic tasks for freelancers are scripts (video and audio clips, promotions, etc.).
6. How is a copywriter better to promote their services?
The question is great. There are no 100% recipes in this matter, because No two copywriters are alike. Only first, everyone should understand for himself what he is better than everyone else, what are his strengths and uniqueness; who are his potential customers. Then in progress will be success. Moving "like everyone else" in a group of their own kind is very difficult. Now interest in this profession is growing and soon the market will be cramped. It's time to think about the future.
7. How can a copywriter determine the cost of their services? Focus on the market, competitors or use other pricing methods?
Focus on yourself and do not forget about the market. The price is not a constant, it can be changed. I would recommend beginners with $ 5-7 per 1000 characters. To fill the hand, to turn out a portfolio. Newbies usually have few customers, so there is a comfortable environment, time and effort to put a soul into each text. Pass it through yourself. Let each text be done with maximum efficiency. Indicator of the correct movement will increase the number of customers. Then prices can be raised. But the quality must remain stable. This applies to the copywriters, mnogostanochnikov, of which an absolute majority.
8. In an interview with one of the freelance copywriters (I don’t remember, unfortunately, his first name and last name), it was noted that there are very few literate copywriters in runet. Is this really true?
Errors in the texts are rare, but the works themselves are boring for the most part. Sad and dreary. The “fifth grade essay” style is simple and tasteless.
You can argue and call such texts for a long time. Only I am sure that the boring text does not sell. Sells price, market position, but not text. On the other hand, what kind of sales can we expect from the text “About the Company”? His goal is different - to convey the spirit of the company, to form an image, to adjust to the desired mode. Cope with this "essay fifth-grader"? Alas.
9. How would you comment on the statement of Mikhail Kozlov, director of marketing for Ashmanov and Partners about SEO copywriting: "... I personally think that this work has not only the future, but also a meaningful present. I think it should not be special "search" texts. Texts are written for people, they should help to solve problems
site its owner. If his task is to attract search traffic, well, let him write texts targeted at search engines. But if you need to sell, then you need to prepare good materials that buyers will appreciate "?
I completely agree. Only the problem is not so much in copywriters, as in customers. Standard situation. The site owner is eager for traffic and a place in the top. Under these goals, the optimizer is hired. That, in turn, recruits a copywriter. What task does he have for the pen worker? That's right - the percentage of keywords. Not all customers will require other texts and a different style. You wanted traffic, and you have it. On the other hand, the copywriter does not want to fall below a certain level and drive outright sludge.
Universal success
10. In your opinion, to become a successful copywriter, you need to strive to be a universal specialist or have a narrow specialization?
To become a successful copywriter, you need to be a marketer and psychologist. Marketing is the foundation, and psychology is the key to successful communication. I tend to be a broad specialist. The market needs copywriters in all guises, not just creators of slogans, naymery or text masters.
11. Suppose I worked in a completely different area, but decided to become a copywriter. Behind shoulders - only university essays, coursework, diploma :) That
There is really no practice in the field of copywriting. How can I become a copywriter? Where to begin?
Hmm, why? First you need to understand what you want? This is only in the movie, copyrighters love busty blondes, and their pockets burst with bills. Copywriting is a hard craft, often monotonous.
Some people are attracted by the halo of elitism, the desire to make advertising, the desire to cook in a creative pot. It is to cook. This is reminiscent of 15 year old girls who go to an expensive club, then to tell everyone they know they saw drunk Kirkorov. So party-goers have no place in advertising. If a soul sings when you write text or work on slogans, then in small steps - from trial (free) orders to reputable customers.
12. How can a customer, who often does not understand the intricacies of selling texts, understand the quality of the copywriter's work? Here are two texts
for example, it seems written both beautifully, interestingly and in the case. How to distinguish "selling" from "non-selling"? Haltur from really high-quality work?
First of all, you need to choose an artist. Everyone knows that. Then options are possible. Many people order the text "so that I and the boss like it." There is no point in talking about efficiency.
Ideal conditions when the maximum information is provided for work, and then the text can be checked and the conversion in numbers. Such situations are rare. They give me true copywriting pleasure - the market puts everything in its place, you see, whether the text works or not, why, who is to blame and what to do.
Those. in its place all puts the performance evaluation.
13. Should a copywriter have any code of honor that does not allow him to engage in advertising of questionable goods, even for a lot of money? To me
I had to read the opinions of people who consider it unethical to engage in advertising for alcohol, cigarettes, questionable drugs and dietary supplements. On the other hand, customers pay money ...
Everyone decides for himself. I respect people with such principles. But only if it is the principles, not the window dressing. It may happen, as in hf. “Cruel Romance”, when Karandyshev proudly declared that he did not take bribes. To which he replied: "If you were given."
Alcohol and tobacco companies are gigantic budgets. Therefore, they are very well treated in advertising agencies, especially in the media. As you understand, only a few recall the code of honor and principles. I think thousands of artists want creative ideas for Marlboro, Smirnoff or Bacardi.
Freelance copywriter
14. Tell me how, in your opinion, does the copywriting profession change a person? What is the professional imprint imposes?
I will not say for everyone. I have lost the desire to speak platitudes, to express cliches.
15. Tell me, how much do professional freelance copywriters really earn today?
I will leave the answer :)
16. Many freelancers have a customer classification. Share yours?
I admit, there is no such. According to the behavior of the customer, you can predict what will work with him and make a choice, but there is no clear system. I trust intuition more than formal signs.
17. How is it better for a copywriter to improve their professional level, skill?
Work on the bugs and regular information-emotional support from thematic resources and the work of colleagues.
18. For a long time I have been tormented by one question. Here there is a lot of the same goods that do not have any unique advantages relative to each other.
How to advertise them, how to convince the consumer to buy one and not the other? For example, to buy metal from one trader and not another (each trader has the same metal, assortment, approximately the same prices)?
A copywriter is not an omnipotent celestial being, but a simple tribune. He sings what he sees, slightly cheering reality. If there are no differences, then they should be invented and implemented. But in many respects this is not the work of a copywriter. Additional services, free shipping and so on and so forth is the work of a full-time marketer.
19. What qualities are the most important for a copywriter - the ability to analyze a topic, present complex things in a simple and understandable language,
impeccable language skills, something else? Is a copywriter more an analyst or a humanist who is sublime and divorced from this world?
The ability to ask and listen.
20. Tell me how to explain to the customer that you are worth the money that you really ask for the work?
It’s not the copywriter himself who should explain, but everything he touched. Satisfied customers, portfolio, website.
21. Perhaps, I repeat. Tell me, by what criteria should the cost of the text be evaluated? Roughly speaking, why is one text barely selling for $ 50, and for
another - and $ 150 is not a pity?
I think the fact is that when buying a text, people buy a copywriter. Therefore, one wants to pay $ 150, and the other is a pity and dozens. Why is this happening, see question 20 :)
22. How do you assess the effectiveness of techniques such as phonosemantic analysis of texts, NLP? Does it really work?
The more often these terms are mentioned in speech, the more weight in the eyes of the customer can be gained. The main thing is not to abuse and not lie. I do not behave this way and I am happy insanely.
SEO terminators and cyborg designers
23. Question on the verge of fiction. Now, solid IT companies are fighting over the creation of AI, some even claim that they have made great progress in
artificial intelligence. Chess taught the computer how to win :) Do you think the computer will ever teach how to write good texts, practice
creativity? Or is it really only for a person?
In the future, it is easily possible. We are waiting for the wonderful era of SEO terminators and cyborg designers.
24. Advertising and copywriting, in particular - is it more creative or business?
Business.
25. Should a copywriter be engaged in its positioning, advertising, promotion, finally, creating a name?
Definitely, yes.
26. Everyone wants creativity. All around say they are the most creative. How do you feel about this very creative? What kind of animal is this? And do you need it in advertising?
The field for discussion opens a lot with this question. In advertising, it is needed, but without excesses.
27. Tell me, is a male copywriter able to create texts for a purely female audience? For example, write a selling text for a female
cosmetics, lipstick, pads the same? How difficult will it be to “get used to” the topic, to understand the Central Asian reaction to the text? Or is it better for men to engage in "male"
themes, women - "female"?
You can try, but not the fact that it will turn out better than a female copywriter. Brief brief, but there is still a way of thinking and experience. The situation in the series “I did not use the gaskets, but I have my own opinion on this issue” is comical.
28. The most unusual topic that you had to write?
Somehow I received an order to write 1000 slogans for porno galleries. I imagined that I would not be scribbling phrases with “tits,” “girls,” and other anal-orals, and without reflexing my backs.
29. Your personal motto or slogan?
The power of thought into the energy of the word.
Thank you for your responses!
Interviewed by Sersh, owner of the remote work portal Kadrof.ru , June 05, 2007
Not calculated on the stock exchange
1. Tell us how you came to advertising? And how did you become a freelance copywriter?
From medical student, through writing articles for gloss to marketing and copywriting. The path is tortuous and thorny.
2. Have you had any office experience? And if so, why did you decide to leave in freelancing?
Yes, it was. Equally good attitude to work in the office, and to freelancing. On this account there are no strict principles and moral beliefs that only freelancing and nothing more. If life offers to work from 10 to 7 in the office - no problem. The harsh reality is that there are not so many clean freelancers. The bulk is office workers who work in their spare time for themselves.
3. As far as I know, most Russian advertisers do not have a specialized education. Many of them are mathematicians, physicists, chemists :) How did it happen in your case?
Similarly. I have a medical degree and additional marketing. An explosive mixture with an unpredictable effect.
4. Dmitry, do you use remote work exchanges such as Free-Lance.ru or Weblancer.net? To be honest, I have not seen your accounts on these sites, although
for many freelancers, remote work exchanges provide the majority of clients. You do not register on exchanges in principle or for some other reason?
I have an account on Free-Lance, sometimes I read a mailing list with projects, but I don’t expect much on these sites. They brought me no customer, although there was a time when he behaved very actively there. Too many freeloaders there. How can you take seriously a person who offers $ 1 per thousand characters of text? And there are plenty of such projects. Now in the public eye, a freelancer is a cheap performer. While there is such a stereotype, there will be such orders.
Need content!
5. Tell me, what services freelance copywriters, in your opinion, the most in demand now and what will be in demand in the future?
Now in great demand is content. People with violent fantasy call it ersatz texts. There is a demand, offers - more than enough, quality requirements are minimal. Those. Employees of the pen order text with the desired percentage of keywords. Everything. No other requirements. You can just steal the text from another site and rearrange the sentences in some places, you can pull from 3 sites and write a summary, you can invent it from your head. The requirement for texts is the same - keywords, and for executors of requirements 2 - low prices (the lower, the better) and the minimum terms of work (1-2 hours per text).
The second place in the popularity of texts in the full sense of the word. They are written for people and their difference from content is humanity. Here you can talk about beauty, style, selling power.
Then comes the creative in its pure form: ideas, slogans, etc. The most exotic tasks for freelancers are scripts (video and audio clips, promotions, etc.).
6. How is a copywriter better to promote their services?
The question is great. There are no 100% recipes in this matter, because No two copywriters are alike. Only first, everyone should understand for himself what he is better than everyone else, what are his strengths and uniqueness; who are his potential customers. Then in progress will be success. Moving "like everyone else" in a group of their own kind is very difficult. Now interest in this profession is growing and soon the market will be cramped. It's time to think about the future.
7. How can a copywriter determine the cost of their services? Focus on the market, competitors or use other pricing methods?
Focus on yourself and do not forget about the market. The price is not a constant, it can be changed. I would recommend beginners with $ 5-7 per 1000 characters. To fill the hand, to turn out a portfolio. Newbies usually have few customers, so there is a comfortable environment, time and effort to put a soul into each text. Pass it through yourself. Let each text be done with maximum efficiency. Indicator of the correct movement will increase the number of customers. Then prices can be raised. But the quality must remain stable. This applies to the copywriters, mnogostanochnikov, of which an absolute majority.
8. In an interview with one of the freelance copywriters (I don’t remember, unfortunately, his first name and last name), it was noted that there are very few literate copywriters in runet. Is this really true?
Errors in the texts are rare, but the works themselves are boring for the most part. Sad and dreary. The “fifth grade essay” style is simple and tasteless.
You can argue and call such texts for a long time. Only I am sure that the boring text does not sell. Sells price, market position, but not text. On the other hand, what kind of sales can we expect from the text “About the Company”? His goal is different - to convey the spirit of the company, to form an image, to adjust to the desired mode. Cope with this "essay fifth-grader"? Alas.
9. How would you comment on the statement of Mikhail Kozlov, director of marketing for Ashmanov and Partners about SEO copywriting: "... I personally think that this work has not only the future, but also a meaningful present. I think it should not be special "search" texts. Texts are written for people, they should help to solve problems
site its owner. If his task is to attract search traffic, well, let him write texts targeted at search engines. But if you need to sell, then you need to prepare good materials that buyers will appreciate "?
I completely agree. Only the problem is not so much in copywriters, as in customers. Standard situation. The site owner is eager for traffic and a place in the top. Under these goals, the optimizer is hired. That, in turn, recruits a copywriter. What task does he have for the pen worker? That's right - the percentage of keywords. Not all customers will require other texts and a different style. You wanted traffic, and you have it. On the other hand, the copywriter does not want to fall below a certain level and drive outright sludge.
Universal success
10. In your opinion, to become a successful copywriter, you need to strive to be a universal specialist or have a narrow specialization?
To become a successful copywriter, you need to be a marketer and psychologist. Marketing is the foundation, and psychology is the key to successful communication. I tend to be a broad specialist. The market needs copywriters in all guises, not just creators of slogans, naymery or text masters.
11. Suppose I worked in a completely different area, but decided to become a copywriter. Behind shoulders - only university essays, coursework, diploma :) That
There is really no practice in the field of copywriting. How can I become a copywriter? Where to begin?
Hmm, why? First you need to understand what you want? This is only in the movie, copyrighters love busty blondes, and their pockets burst with bills. Copywriting is a hard craft, often monotonous.
Some people are attracted by the halo of elitism, the desire to make advertising, the desire to cook in a creative pot. It is to cook. This is reminiscent of 15 year old girls who go to an expensive club, then to tell everyone they know they saw drunk Kirkorov. So party-goers have no place in advertising. If a soul sings when you write text or work on slogans, then in small steps - from trial (free) orders to reputable customers.
12. How can a customer, who often does not understand the intricacies of selling texts, understand the quality of the copywriter's work? Here are two texts
for example, it seems written both beautifully, interestingly and in the case. How to distinguish "selling" from "non-selling"? Haltur from really high-quality work?
First of all, you need to choose an artist. Everyone knows that. Then options are possible. Many people order the text "so that I and the boss like it." There is no point in talking about efficiency.
Ideal conditions when the maximum information is provided for work, and then the text can be checked and the conversion in numbers. Such situations are rare. They give me true copywriting pleasure - the market puts everything in its place, you see, whether the text works or not, why, who is to blame and what to do.
Those. in its place all puts the performance evaluation.
13. Should a copywriter have any code of honor that does not allow him to engage in advertising of questionable goods, even for a lot of money? To me
I had to read the opinions of people who consider it unethical to engage in advertising for alcohol, cigarettes, questionable drugs and dietary supplements. On the other hand, customers pay money ...
Everyone decides for himself. I respect people with such principles. But only if it is the principles, not the window dressing. It may happen, as in hf. “Cruel Romance”, when Karandyshev proudly declared that he did not take bribes. To which he replied: "If you were given."
Alcohol and tobacco companies are gigantic budgets. Therefore, they are very well treated in advertising agencies, especially in the media. As you understand, only a few recall the code of honor and principles. I think thousands of artists want creative ideas for Marlboro, Smirnoff or Bacardi.
Freelance copywriter
14. Tell me how, in your opinion, does the copywriting profession change a person? What is the professional imprint imposes?
I will not say for everyone. I have lost the desire to speak platitudes, to express cliches.
15. Tell me, how much do professional freelance copywriters really earn today?
I will leave the answer :)
16. Many freelancers have a customer classification. Share yours?
I admit, there is no such. According to the behavior of the customer, you can predict what will work with him and make a choice, but there is no clear system. I trust intuition more than formal signs.
17. How is it better for a copywriter to improve their professional level, skill?
Work on the bugs and regular information-emotional support from thematic resources and the work of colleagues.
18. For a long time I have been tormented by one question. Here there is a lot of the same goods that do not have any unique advantages relative to each other.
How to advertise them, how to convince the consumer to buy one and not the other? For example, to buy metal from one trader and not another (each trader has the same metal, assortment, approximately the same prices)?
A copywriter is not an omnipotent celestial being, but a simple tribune. He sings what he sees, slightly cheering reality. If there are no differences, then they should be invented and implemented. But in many respects this is not the work of a copywriter. Additional services, free shipping and so on and so forth is the work of a full-time marketer.
19. What qualities are the most important for a copywriter - the ability to analyze a topic, present complex things in a simple and understandable language,
impeccable language skills, something else? Is a copywriter more an analyst or a humanist who is sublime and divorced from this world?
The ability to ask and listen.
20. Tell me how to explain to the customer that you are worth the money that you really ask for the work?
It’s not the copywriter himself who should explain, but everything he touched. Satisfied customers, portfolio, website.
21. Perhaps, I repeat. Tell me, by what criteria should the cost of the text be evaluated? Roughly speaking, why is one text barely selling for $ 50, and for
another - and $ 150 is not a pity?
I think the fact is that when buying a text, people buy a copywriter. Therefore, one wants to pay $ 150, and the other is a pity and dozens. Why is this happening, see question 20 :)
22. How do you assess the effectiveness of techniques such as phonosemantic analysis of texts, NLP? Does it really work?
The more often these terms are mentioned in speech, the more weight in the eyes of the customer can be gained. The main thing is not to abuse and not lie. I do not behave this way and I am happy insanely.
SEO terminators and cyborg designers
23. Question on the verge of fiction. Now, solid IT companies are fighting over the creation of AI, some even claim that they have made great progress in
artificial intelligence. Chess taught the computer how to win :) Do you think the computer will ever teach how to write good texts, practice
creativity? Or is it really only for a person?
In the future, it is easily possible. We are waiting for the wonderful era of SEO terminators and cyborg designers.
24. Advertising and copywriting, in particular - is it more creative or business?
Business.
25. Should a copywriter be engaged in its positioning, advertising, promotion, finally, creating a name?
Definitely, yes.
26. Everyone wants creativity. All around say they are the most creative. How do you feel about this very creative? What kind of animal is this? And do you need it in advertising?
The field for discussion opens a lot with this question. In advertising, it is needed, but without excesses.
27. Tell me, is a male copywriter able to create texts for a purely female audience? For example, write a selling text for a female
cosmetics, lipstick, pads the same? How difficult will it be to “get used to” the topic, to understand the Central Asian reaction to the text? Or is it better for men to engage in "male"
themes, women - "female"?
You can try, but not the fact that it will turn out better than a female copywriter. Brief brief, but there is still a way of thinking and experience. The situation in the series “I did not use the gaskets, but I have my own opinion on this issue” is comical.
28. The most unusual topic that you had to write?
Somehow I received an order to write 1000 slogans for porno galleries. I imagined that I would not be scribbling phrases with “tits,” “girls,” and other anal-orals, and without reflexing my backs.
29. Your personal motto or slogan?
The power of thought into the energy of the word.
Thank you for your responses!
Interviewed by Sersh, owner of the remote work portal Kadrof.ru , June 05, 2007
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Source: https://habr.com/ru/post/9510/
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