Labels and Copyright: The word to the musicians themselves
The theme of "copyrights in music" on the Habré traditionally suffers from a "dilettanic" approach. More than once, fighters against “copyrights”, “labels” and other “belching music business” were reproached with the naivety and the theoretical nature of their knowledge. Few people here have heard the opinion of the musicians themselves, “for the happiness” of whom the struggle is going on, but what do they themselves think about all this? How are things in real life?
The original author of the text and the interviewer is romx , you can comment, send rays of hatred and pluses into karma for a useful initiative directly to him.
Some time ago, in comments I promised to ask about the situation in Russia (and specifically in Moscow) with music, earnings, concerts, labels and copyrights from a real, “practical” musician. Below is a conversation transcript. All the above names are carefully fictitious, all names are scored. A man plays in a fairly well-known rock band, in its genre included, perhaps, in the top five in Russia, so here is the opinion of the “militant” domestic musician with 25 years of experience.
The conversation was conducted in several receptions in the chat. The transcript is somewhat combed, since we know a person ... u, for more than 20 years exactly, so we had to brush some “ease of communication” and non-parliamentary expressions;) but the facts and figures were left “copyright”. So "just the facts." Draw your own conclusions about the reality of the world “without copyright” and “life for donations and concerts”.
Listen, but tell me if you know, even if approximately. With ZZZZ, you recorded the discs and released them, how much it cost per round. I understand that everything is different, but for example, we take for simplicity only studio work and its payment, without production and circulation.
Plus, about how much time it took from the moment “let's get it through” to “mastering”.
')
From let's - a year or two of life, paying a repbase, buying tools (beer, drugs, some of which), a pickup - $ 20-25 per rehearsal. To make an album we need to rehearse for two years
two rehearsals a week. Well, probably for pop music is less.
Record - studio pricing. Despite the fact that we wrote in a cheap basement studio, and only drums, in fact. Well, another bass, 50 percent ... Guitars were written at home ... On average, for one 3-5 hour session in the studio, you can record a couple of things, this is if ours. This is with our super drummer and extremely complex material ... Further variations are possible as you understand - with a good drummer and simple material you can tap the entire album during the session, and vice versa, respectively ... If you record the recording of guitars and vocals in the studio, then the cost of it will grow by order, because no one knows how to play or sing, nowhere and never, especially beginners. And how do you like hotshotstso adults, and in the studio you can hear everything ...
The data — in our case, recorded by our sound engineer, took them and brought them home on their knees, without monitoring at all — cost $ 100 per item, plus, as a rule, in the final, he begs 200 dollars for “mastering” ...
I do not know the price for the circulation, there were label expenses ... about $ 1000 I think with the circulation of 500-1000 pieces. We had a number of copyright discs from the label for free.
Comment from A:
Offhand, I remember something about $ 2.5 per piece, with a circulation of 500 - this is Moscow's "samopal." If it is done at the factory, legally, then there is a monopoly of the Ural Electronic Plant. Their prices are:
hxxp: //www.disc.ru/price.htm
It seems that in Moscow, St. Petersburg there are dealers of the same plant, through which you can print there, but a little cheaper.
Yes, somewhere in the circulation of 1000 pieces at $ 1000 and goes, give or take.
What is your financial relationship with the label?
box of disks ... or two boxes I do not remember .. :)
Well, that is, you take it, you do everything yourself, bring the master to the label, they print it through their channels, give you a box of copyrights, sell the rest themselves, but what about the $ 10 written on the site?
Yeah, right.
Do these relations impose any obligations on you? Somehow crushes, limits?
No, we give the master, they print the circulation for their own, we get a copyright box for free, plus disks at cost, if there are not enough disks to distribute. Everything seems to be. We're not on their salary.
What percentage of your circulation, if any?
No I do not know how it is sold. We have published disks on our webpage, I don't know who buys them there, if they buy them.
And how much does the club hall cost in Moscow to play a concert, well, if approximately, if it was impatient, for example, in a week.
And what are the prices in the studio?
In the studio, everything depends on the studio. In an adult - see in the internet. In our session, we gave 100 dollars in my opinion, but this is a freebie, and we wrote only drums and quickly.
The hall for the evening - 20 thousand rubles, although, of course, depends on the hall. Conditions are different.
Here we are renting XXX, we will soon have an anniversary here to play our own, 10 years old group like ...
In general, there are places with halls where they will let you in for free if you guarantee them a lot of people ... But few can guarantee this, as you understand. Well, and more than one or two times only “stars” can assemble this hall.
That is, if I correctly consider:
Suppose 10 things, two for a session - $ 500 for recording in the studio, well, let us add another 200-700. Then 100 for each item - 1000 + 200 “mastering”, well, let 2000.
Suppose rehearsals a year, 50 weeks, 2 rehearsals a week, $ 20 each - $ 2000.
That is, according to a very, very optimistic option - a year of time and $ 4000 of money is given at the exit of a master for circulation. Didn't miss anything?
Yeah ... sort of ...
Well, that is, you take it, you do everything yourself, bring the master to the label, they print it through their channels, give you a box of copyrights, sell the rest themselves, but what about the $ 10 written on the site?
Have you tried doning from a web page? And generally sell music over the Internet?
And is there any income from a concert in your (or industry average and colleagues)?
Well, let's say, a typical case, not a hall in XXX in honor of the 10th anniversary :)
Darling, ... come on, it's us ... I? - this time, and two - which m ... k it will buy? Who do you think will buy “air”, even if the CD is not sold? We after the release of the last album in the Internet release gave a link to the mp3 archive and scored on this matter. Disks - are distributed. No, the producer comes to bargain. Pxxxxxxxx-v trades in her own disks at concerts, and has a pretty good idea, but there are 500-600r discs per piece, and her number of albums tends to infinity.
Earnings from concerts with Olka and me, with the full hall on tickets to the OIG, for example, reached $ 100 per snout ...
Earnings = corporate parties. Marketing money is washed and poured there, there are earnings of about a thousand dollars in the snout, even with a large team. Corporate parties, riding in country houses, in the sense of coming and working there is a holiday. The tavern is shorter.
Stay and play "Land in the Window" until you get off the stage from such art.
In general, rumors and legends are about giant earnings in corporate events. Now, for example, the Gypsy project in which I was called (golimy tavern), there 20 000 rub for half an hour promised work without questions, but this is for 7 people, so in the final again we have $ 100 in the snout ...
That, you know, is not superfluous, but it also does not feed ...
And rock music is forgive me ... Independent when, in the sense of - this is not earnings. And who needs it there. There every Tatyana Ovsienko earns, “Gems” is different, and other stars of discos of the 80s and 90s.
You can probably go on a tour of European clubs such as we with the XXX then went - it turns out to make money, and in Moscow for clubs - one laugh.
Taxi back and forth and beer there when it closes - I'm happy ..)))
Well, that is, I’ll sum up again: to hold a concert is, if very optimistic, pay 20-30 thousand rubles (800-1000 $) for renting the hall, and your earnings from it are usually $ 100 for each of five people, that is, $ 500 for earnings from a concert?
Yeah.
Is it a profit, or even a salary?
Profit, but minus is played very often.
Addition about the cost of organizing a concert from another person (IB):
Source http://bogushevich.livejournal.com/143691.html
“Suppose we are now looking for a hall in which we could play a program with chamber composition: a grand piano bass trochek (small drum set of a“ jazz ”type) a vocal. [...]
There is in Msk such a cozy room for 470 seats. And they ask for 180 thousand rubles of rent. If we make a concert ourselves, we have to pay this rent for a couple of months (before the concert). Suppose we ventured. But that is not all. In this hall, the so-called apparatus is installed: portals, monitors, microphones and all other garbage.
So, if you rent a room, it does not mean that you can use all this wealth. Figo! In order to sing into a microphone, from which the wire pulls into the console, you must also rent a device. (Which, I recall, is permanently installed there). For an additional 200 thousand rubles. Bring your apparatik, not for 200 thousand, you have no right.
By simple calculations, you can find out how much each of these 470 spectators must pay for the ticket just to discourage these investments - even if all the artists work for free. But there are still advertising costs - and there is an agency commission, if you suppose you want to blame the whole organization on special people, and go out yourself in a white dress coat and be engaged exclusively in art. ”
Now let's talk about food, about the possibility of being a professional musician, that is, living with music lessons
Gygy. OK, let's try.
Let's define the cost of living and, say, the level of “acceptable poverty” or something.
For obvious reasons, we take Moscow, because the entire music business is sitting here, here we take you, a non-Muscovite, without a mom and dad who feeds, with the need to rent housing, and all that. Typical nonresident who came in.
Mm ... thousand 20-30r rent (apartment). Everything else is individual ... how to eat, how to drink, how to get out ... I spend an average of 2-4 thousand dollars, (60 - 120 thousand rubles), but I have + gasoline, car repairs, a hobby, so I'm not a figure. less than $ 2,000 in general never happens. So yes, perhaps 50-60 thousand, this is one and very good. modestly ... Without medical insurance, loans, mortgages, blackouts, and other bourgeois excesses.
Well, tell me, because I am completely behind your Moscow life. Your criterion.
Well, I say. 2 thousand dollars.
That is, the subsistence of 2. A basic acceptable?
Well, damn ... It depends on what zhlobstva you want to allow yourself. I can not say. You can and 5 thousand p. a month to survive - cereal and bread, and you can even proyrat 100 without thinking ...
That is between 3 and 4 thousand dollars?
yep
That is, if you wanted to become a real professional musician who lives exclusively from music lessons, then you would need to earn as of now, in Moscow, at least $ 4,000 a month, which is approximately $ 45,000 a year, “After taxes”?
Go away, longing, do not torment me :)
The question of sitting on a contract, as I recall, Olka practiced this way. What were the conditions there at all?
Well, she signed something with Khhhhhh-y in 2007 or even earlier, I don’t remember.
Nothing was there, no interest, God be with you. The percentage - from the circulation was from sales, but no sales. Some disks gave so, "copyright." The rest - she bought for money, but at wholesale prices, of course, if she wanted to bring poprodat at a concert.
But the record paid?
Yes, the voice was written in their studio, for free.
In the sense of there our financial investments were not at all any.
They are studio time and sound work ...
Sound them, the studio, too, sobsno.
Ah, well, that's interesting. That is, the label paid for recording the material.
Well, yes, so, on his own label studio.
And Phhhh-va, you say, has a profit from sales?
Roma ... how come you ... mean, look ... a girl sits on her concerts and sells XXX discs, for the salary that M. pays for her (owner XXX and concert organizer). Phhhhh-va this girl also shoves her own disks that she has ... she sells them too, gives loot to Phhhhh-howl. These are the whole intricate scheme. Taxes - zero. It is not necessary to share with anyone ...)) profit ... say too ... plucked up words.
Well, where did your disks come from? Did someone make them too, or is it written outside of XXX somewhere?
discs from Phxxxxx-howl - firstly it is published mostly not in XXX, but from third-party labels, respectively, part of the circulation gets for so, some can redeem either at cost or wholesale - I don’t know, but in any case, the sales margin is good
And here's another about Olka. Any restrictions or requirements that this contract imposed?
Type "do not play concerts", or "write no later than six months after the start of the contract, otherwise a penalty" This I fantasize.
Restrictions in the contract were about the use of material in the cinema and so on, playing on the air ... about the dates, too, something happened, but without sanctions in my opinion ...
Well, that is not at all "bondage"?
No, not bondage.
Well, the question is rhetorical, probably sorry.
Here you would prefer to receive some stable percentage from sales during, well, for example, two or three years after the recording of the album, which would sell the label there through its own channels, regardless of what you are doing at the moment, or would prefer Would you play for corporate events, getting for concerts, directly?
Well, of course, who will refuse to “receive money” for that?
[end of interview]
Here, sobsno, all I wanted to tell "about Vietnam."
The original author of the text and the interviewer is romx , you can comment, send rays of hatred and pluses into karma for a useful initiative directly to him.
Some time ago, in comments I promised to ask about the situation in Russia (and specifically in Moscow) with music, earnings, concerts, labels and copyrights from a real, “practical” musician. Below is a conversation transcript. All the above names are carefully fictitious, all names are scored. A man plays in a fairly well-known rock band, in its genre included, perhaps, in the top five in Russia, so here is the opinion of the “militant” domestic musician with 25 years of experience.
The conversation was conducted in several receptions in the chat. The transcript is somewhat combed, since we know a person ... u, for more than 20 years exactly, so we had to brush some “ease of communication” and non-parliamentary expressions;) but the facts and figures were left “copyright”. So "just the facts." Draw your own conclusions about the reality of the world “without copyright” and “life for donations and concerts”.
Listen, but tell me if you know, even if approximately. With ZZZZ, you recorded the discs and released them, how much it cost per round. I understand that everything is different, but for example, we take for simplicity only studio work and its payment, without production and circulation.
Plus, about how much time it took from the moment “let's get it through” to “mastering”.
')
From let's - a year or two of life, paying a repbase, buying tools (beer, drugs, some of which), a pickup - $ 20-25 per rehearsal. To make an album we need to rehearse for two years
two rehearsals a week. Well, probably for pop music is less.
Record - studio pricing. Despite the fact that we wrote in a cheap basement studio, and only drums, in fact. Well, another bass, 50 percent ... Guitars were written at home ... On average, for one 3-5 hour session in the studio, you can record a couple of things, this is if ours. This is with our super drummer and extremely complex material ... Further variations are possible as you understand - with a good drummer and simple material you can tap the entire album during the session, and vice versa, respectively ... If you record the recording of guitars and vocals in the studio, then the cost of it will grow by order, because no one knows how to play or sing, nowhere and never, especially beginners. And how do you like hotshotstso adults, and in the studio you can hear everything ...
The data — in our case, recorded by our sound engineer, took them and brought them home on their knees, without monitoring at all — cost $ 100 per item, plus, as a rule, in the final, he begs 200 dollars for “mastering” ...
I do not know the price for the circulation, there were label expenses ... about $ 1000 I think with the circulation of 500-1000 pieces. We had a number of copyright discs from the label for free.
Comment from A:
Offhand, I remember something about $ 2.5 per piece, with a circulation of 500 - this is Moscow's "samopal." If it is done at the factory, legally, then there is a monopoly of the Ural Electronic Plant. Their prices are:
hxxp: //www.disc.ru/price.htm
It seems that in Moscow, St. Petersburg there are dealers of the same plant, through which you can print there, but a little cheaper.
Yes, somewhere in the circulation of 1000 pieces at $ 1000 and goes, give or take.
What is your financial relationship with the label?
box of disks ... or two boxes I do not remember .. :)
Well, that is, you take it, you do everything yourself, bring the master to the label, they print it through their channels, give you a box of copyrights, sell the rest themselves, but what about the $ 10 written on the site?
Yeah, right.
Do these relations impose any obligations on you? Somehow crushes, limits?
No, we give the master, they print the circulation for their own, we get a copyright box for free, plus disks at cost, if there are not enough disks to distribute. Everything seems to be. We're not on their salary.
What percentage of your circulation, if any?
No I do not know how it is sold. We have published disks on our webpage, I don't know who buys them there, if they buy them.
And how much does the club hall cost in Moscow to play a concert, well, if approximately, if it was impatient, for example, in a week.
And what are the prices in the studio?
In the studio, everything depends on the studio. In an adult - see in the internet. In our session, we gave 100 dollars in my opinion, but this is a freebie, and we wrote only drums and quickly.
The hall for the evening - 20 thousand rubles, although, of course, depends on the hall. Conditions are different.
Here we are renting XXX, we will soon have an anniversary here to play our own, 10 years old group like ...
In general, there are places with halls where they will let you in for free if you guarantee them a lot of people ... But few can guarantee this, as you understand. Well, and more than one or two times only “stars” can assemble this hall.
That is, if I correctly consider:
Suppose 10 things, two for a session - $ 500 for recording in the studio, well, let us add another 200-700. Then 100 for each item - 1000 + 200 “mastering”, well, let 2000.
Suppose rehearsals a year, 50 weeks, 2 rehearsals a week, $ 20 each - $ 2000.
That is, according to a very, very optimistic option - a year of time and $ 4000 of money is given at the exit of a master for circulation. Didn't miss anything?
Yeah ... sort of ...
Well, that is, you take it, you do everything yourself, bring the master to the label, they print it through their channels, give you a box of copyrights, sell the rest themselves, but what about the $ 10 written on the site?
Have you tried doning from a web page? And generally sell music over the Internet?
And is there any income from a concert in your (or industry average and colleagues)?
Well, let's say, a typical case, not a hall in XXX in honor of the 10th anniversary :)
Darling, ... come on, it's us ... I? - this time, and two - which m ... k it will buy? Who do you think will buy “air”, even if the CD is not sold? We after the release of the last album in the Internet release gave a link to the mp3 archive and scored on this matter. Disks - are distributed. No, the producer comes to bargain. Pxxxxxxxx-v trades in her own disks at concerts, and has a pretty good idea, but there are 500-600r discs per piece, and her number of albums tends to infinity.
Earnings from concerts with Olka and me, with the full hall on tickets to the OIG, for example, reached $ 100 per snout ...
Earnings = corporate parties. Marketing money is washed and poured there, there are earnings of about a thousand dollars in the snout, even with a large team. Corporate parties, riding in country houses, in the sense of coming and working there is a holiday. The tavern is shorter.
Stay and play "Land in the Window" until you get off the stage from such art.
In general, rumors and legends are about giant earnings in corporate events. Now, for example, the Gypsy project in which I was called (golimy tavern), there 20 000 rub for half an hour promised work without questions, but this is for 7 people, so in the final again we have $ 100 in the snout ...
That, you know, is not superfluous, but it also does not feed ...
And rock music is forgive me ... Independent when, in the sense of - this is not earnings. And who needs it there. There every Tatyana Ovsienko earns, “Gems” is different, and other stars of discos of the 80s and 90s.
You can probably go on a tour of European clubs such as we with the XXX then went - it turns out to make money, and in Moscow for clubs - one laugh.
Taxi back and forth and beer there when it closes - I'm happy ..)))
Well, that is, I’ll sum up again: to hold a concert is, if very optimistic, pay 20-30 thousand rubles (800-1000 $) for renting the hall, and your earnings from it are usually $ 100 for each of five people, that is, $ 500 for earnings from a concert?
Yeah.
Is it a profit, or even a salary?
Profit, but minus is played very often.
Addition about the cost of organizing a concert from another person (IB):
Source http://bogushevich.livejournal.com/143691.html
“Suppose we are now looking for a hall in which we could play a program with chamber composition: a grand piano bass trochek (small drum set of a“ jazz ”type) a vocal. [...]
There is in Msk such a cozy room for 470 seats. And they ask for 180 thousand rubles of rent. If we make a concert ourselves, we have to pay this rent for a couple of months (before the concert). Suppose we ventured. But that is not all. In this hall, the so-called apparatus is installed: portals, monitors, microphones and all other garbage.
So, if you rent a room, it does not mean that you can use all this wealth. Figo! In order to sing into a microphone, from which the wire pulls into the console, you must also rent a device. (Which, I recall, is permanently installed there). For an additional 200 thousand rubles. Bring your apparatik, not for 200 thousand, you have no right.
By simple calculations, you can find out how much each of these 470 spectators must pay for the ticket just to discourage these investments - even if all the artists work for free. But there are still advertising costs - and there is an agency commission, if you suppose you want to blame the whole organization on special people, and go out yourself in a white dress coat and be engaged exclusively in art. ”
Now let's talk about food, about the possibility of being a professional musician, that is, living with music lessons
Gygy. OK, let's try.
Let's define the cost of living and, say, the level of “acceptable poverty” or something.
For obvious reasons, we take Moscow, because the entire music business is sitting here, here we take you, a non-Muscovite, without a mom and dad who feeds, with the need to rent housing, and all that. Typical nonresident who came in.
Mm ... thousand 20-30r rent (apartment). Everything else is individual ... how to eat, how to drink, how to get out ... I spend an average of 2-4 thousand dollars, (60 - 120 thousand rubles), but I have + gasoline, car repairs, a hobby, so I'm not a figure. less than $ 2,000 in general never happens. So yes, perhaps 50-60 thousand, this is one and very good. modestly ... Without medical insurance, loans, mortgages, blackouts, and other bourgeois excesses.
Well, tell me, because I am completely behind your Moscow life. Your criterion.
Well, I say. 2 thousand dollars.
That is, the subsistence of 2. A basic acceptable?
Well, damn ... It depends on what zhlobstva you want to allow yourself. I can not say. You can and 5 thousand p. a month to survive - cereal and bread, and you can even proyrat 100 without thinking ...
That is between 3 and 4 thousand dollars?
yep
That is, if you wanted to become a real professional musician who lives exclusively from music lessons, then you would need to earn as of now, in Moscow, at least $ 4,000 a month, which is approximately $ 45,000 a year, “After taxes”?
Go away, longing, do not torment me :)
The question of sitting on a contract, as I recall, Olka practiced this way. What were the conditions there at all?
Well, she signed something with Khhhhhh-y in 2007 or even earlier, I don’t remember.
Nothing was there, no interest, God be with you. The percentage - from the circulation was from sales, but no sales. Some disks gave so, "copyright." The rest - she bought for money, but at wholesale prices, of course, if she wanted to bring poprodat at a concert.
But the record paid?
Yes, the voice was written in their studio, for free.
In the sense of there our financial investments were not at all any.
They are studio time and sound work ...
Sound them, the studio, too, sobsno.
Ah, well, that's interesting. That is, the label paid for recording the material.
Well, yes, so, on his own label studio.
And Phhhh-va, you say, has a profit from sales?
Roma ... how come you ... mean, look ... a girl sits on her concerts and sells XXX discs, for the salary that M. pays for her (owner XXX and concert organizer). Phhhhh-va this girl also shoves her own disks that she has ... she sells them too, gives loot to Phhhhh-howl. These are the whole intricate scheme. Taxes - zero. It is not necessary to share with anyone ...)) profit ... say too ... plucked up words.
Well, where did your disks come from? Did someone make them too, or is it written outside of XXX somewhere?
discs from Phxxxxx-howl - firstly it is published mostly not in XXX, but from third-party labels, respectively, part of the circulation gets for so, some can redeem either at cost or wholesale - I don’t know, but in any case, the sales margin is good
And here's another about Olka. Any restrictions or requirements that this contract imposed?
Type "do not play concerts", or "write no later than six months after the start of the contract, otherwise a penalty" This I fantasize.
Restrictions in the contract were about the use of material in the cinema and so on, playing on the air ... about the dates, too, something happened, but without sanctions in my opinion ...
Well, that is not at all "bondage"?
No, not bondage.
Well, the question is rhetorical, probably sorry.
Here you would prefer to receive some stable percentage from sales during, well, for example, two or three years after the recording of the album, which would sell the label there through its own channels, regardless of what you are doing at the moment, or would prefer Would you play for corporate events, getting for concerts, directly?
Well, of course, who will refuse to “receive money” for that?
[end of interview]
Here, sobsno, all I wanted to tell "about Vietnam."
Source: https://habr.com/ru/post/85794/
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