Anton Belichkov: “The easiest way to understand the power of OpenStreetMap is to begin to edit the map yourself”
Anton Belichkov (az09) is a programmer from Magnitogorsk who, like almost all the characters in my interviews about the world of OSM, came to this project 10 years ago. He is the warm wisdom and firm spirit of the RU-OSM community. Why the institution of mentoring is so important, how we catch up with America and what the OSM wants from the authorities - he told about all this in an interview.
- How did you find out about OSM?
- My boss, who was already fond of maps, told me about this project. It was almost 10 years ago. He then drew a map of our city - Magnitogorsk. I don’t remember the details of how he did it, why, and in what format, but I remember that I constantly ran to him and asked him to fix something in this map or, on the contrary, to add it. At some point, apparently, he was tired of it and he suggested that I make the edits myself. So I found out about OpenStreetMap. By the way, just 10 years ago almost all the houses and addresses appeared on the map of Magnitogorsk in OSM.
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- What do you like this project? Why did they stay in it?
- I do not know why. Drawing a map in OSM is just a good thing. Your edits can then come in handy to someone: for work, traveling or research. I am pleased to realize this. You do something useful and other people can take advantage of it.
Why do people write articles and upload pictures to Wikipedia? Exactly for the same someone draws houses or puts dots in OSM - this is a way to tell about the world around you.
- What was the RU-OSM community then? Is it any different from the current one?
- It was fun and there were a lot less people in it. We communicated not with Telegram, but with IRC. I think that about how the community was then, can tell quotes from our correspondence of those years. It is carefully stored in WikiOSM.
Now more and more serious, to some extent trying to hold each other's hands. What do I want to say? There is more talk about how to do something or not, what is right and what is not. Less experiments. More stability and predictability. This is a sign of maturity or growth problems - time will tell.
- Do you use in your personal life or at work data from OSM?
- Yes, I use. At work: as a substrate or raw data. My work is connected with the railways, we are engaged in logistics, therefore without cards - in any way. In personal life - traveling. I even have my own tradition: as soon as I am going to go somewhere, I look at the area around the hotel or the places where I plan to go. If they are badly drawn, I correct it - I will map by satellite. To a certain extent, in this way I become acquainted with the place and its features before it turned out to be there. I note all sorts of little things, but in any case this makes my trip more interesting before it begins.
- How in Magnitogorsk with OSM? Do you have meetings? All osmery familiar with each other?
- We are few, we almost all know each other, but, unfortunately, we do not meet in person. Everyone in their area map: draws tracks, marks POI, or plays around with Simple 3D. In addition, maybe for many it will seem like a strange problem, but I don’t even know of any places in Magnitogorsk where we could easily meet and talk. Probably even easier to go to Chelyabinsk.
- You noted that earlier the RU-OSM community was more fun, that is, we can assume that now it is less fun. Some believe that it is completely stagnant. Do you agree with this?
- Personally, I do not feel stagnant. In the OSM project itself there is still a lot of unrealized potential, and therefore there can be no community to “doze off”. It develops as it develops. There is nothing you can do. We grow all together. I am sure, on the basis of OSM you can still make hundreds of different services. Moreover, they gradually appear and each time become more serious and serious. And do not even need any new API 0.7.
But it seems to me, if it is, it is worth looking in the direction of working with multipolygons, namely, routing along them. Despite the fact that many consider “cartoons” a strange invention, nevertheless, to make such a map so that it does not have empty unmarked territory is the dream of all mappers. This is possible only through the use of "cartoons".
Well, and, probably, if one more coordinate appeared in OSM - height - this would be a new round of project development. But this is absolutely not important. I'm fine as it is. To master everything that is already in OSM.
- How can OSM benefit society?
- Many people use it already now. In Russia, rather, until it was mastered by public men and small companies, because it is free. Abroad, OSM has already made its way into state structures.
OSM is quite flexible and versatile. This is not only a map, but also a database. Because someone is planning on his transport routes, someone analyzes with his help the area around the accident and a million more examples. By the way, many analytical companies related to geoinformatics, in any case, do not pass by data from OSM. It is possible that not everyone admits this publicly, but what they take is certain.
The easiest way to understand the power of OSM is to begin to edit the map yourself. Then you will see everything from the inside and you will be surprised that it was always there, but you did not know about it. Therefore, I always offer everyone to become mapers. Edit OSM is easy. Totally.
- Germany and the United States are overtaking Russia in the number of users who make edits to the map every day, I also heard that OSM communities in these countries are more active. What do you think why?
- A few reasons. Firstly, they have a well-developed mentoring institution, and therefore the mentors themselves are much more. It seems that this is a trifle, but it is not. Beginner need to "lead" and help him. Otherwise, he will make mistakes, he will be shown this, he will be upset and leave the project. In addition, if we talk about Germany, then there OSM is already taught in colleges and universities.
Secondly, it affects the size of the country and the population. We are the largest in the world in terms of area, but not numbers. We have a great distance between cities. If the guys are doing some kind of kart meeting or a seminar in Moscow or St. Petersburg, then most likely the residents of the Urals or Siberia will not be able to attend. Well, the inhabitants of the province are less active. Timofey Subbotin tried to do something in Chelyabinsk. How many people did he gather? At the first meeting with a dozen, and the second - only he. Unfortunately, this is all happening. Cooking in your own juice. I do not know how to unite people and pull them out of their cozy apartments. Probably need some kind of super or super task. On the other hand, I paid attention: we have “sofa carpathians”.
Thirdly, they flood much less. They talk mostly on business. Maybe they are so, really, in a society accepted? Habitat leaves its mark? I have little knowledge of the traditions of other countries.
And at the end of this topic I will say one more thing: they respect the rules and administrators. If the admin makes a comment there, then everyone obeys. We can make a lot of comments and debaters will not stop anyway. It also happens that someone is sent to the ban. But the man is already returning "scientist." He already knows that there is a framework through which it is impossible to overstep in this community. Nobody learns anything from us. All remain not only with his opinion, but also manners.
- How much has the map of Russia become more accurate or more complete over these 10 years that you are in the project? How can you rate this?
“If we collect all our achievements in ten years and make a video about this, it will be impressive and beautiful: there are so many forests, roads, hydrographs and much more. Previously, all this was not. But to put it bluntly, there is still nothing. The map is still empty. Try using a map of Russia from OSM for agriculture. Yes, not in life. Why? Just no data.
Why go far? Recently, with a colleague, we tried to build a route between two lakes. And they could not - it was not laid. We then thought that this was due to the fact that it was the Yamal Peninsula, where very little of what was drawn. Repeated this operation in the Chelyabinsk region. And also failed. Although much more is drawn here, but still not enough.
- Is it because we are the largest country in the world?
- Including, but not only. We need to try to talk more about the project and its capabilities, because many people still believe that OSM is just a Mapnik render placed on the main page of the project site. If there is more attention to OSM, there will be more data users and, most importantly, mappers, those who draw this map. Of course, they are not enough. Russia has too few enthusiasts who would like to do this. So we still have to map, map and map again. And about any new API not to think. It is harmful.
We should also look towards the conscious building of the community. You can learn from the business. How does he behave in similar projects where people draw maps? If someone is active, they will say a kind word, they will offer to become an ambassador and a T-shirt will be presented. This is a significant support for user activity. What are we doing? Alas, not always friendly. We are quick to say, but as far as things are concerned, let's say, manifestations of wisdom, then we still have much to strive for. Someone will say, they say, this is a business, it is in his interests, he pays community managers, they are cooing with users, but nobody forbids us to be polite people now.
In addition, I would pay attention to the following point: the interaction of the RU-OSM community with the state, because it is another source of information. So far, there is no interaction at all. For example, the same inventory. When will it be open? How many years have we been talking about him? Why is it difficult to do? I do not know. At the same time, I believe that the state could also benefit from OSM. Because OSM is one of the links of the digital economy, which is now so much talked about and trying to develop.
- What other benefits can the state bring to OSM?
- The state, like all other market participants, will be able to get a free map and a bunch of data that they can use for their own purposes without any problems. The scope of application is enormous: utilities, road facilities, transport, etc. On the basis of the data, conclusions can be drawn, decisions can be made, and forecasts can be made.
In addition, the OSM-RU community is not just people, but active people who do not sit at the TV and do not husk the seeds. They are ready to do something and improve. Yes, this applies only to the world of maps and GIS technologies, but it also needs to be done by someone. Active literate people - this is a great potential. It seems to me that the next stage in the development of OSM-RU is the familiarity of people from the world of GIS technologies and power. If they find points of contact, it will be great. In the end, everyone will benefit from this: the community and the Russian authorities. (smiles)
- In Russia there is a business that makes money on OSM. Why is it not invested and is not engaged in the development of the RU-OSM community? After all, it is in his interest?
- Our business is very dependent on the state, and the state does not make such requests to society. The state believes that it copes with everything. And so there and so everything is good without us, and therefore we are not needed by anyone. People feel this and remain on their own, do not want to communicate with either the business or the state.
Why did I suddenly talk about the state? But let's look at what business is in Russia? Start to understand and you will come to the conclusion that one of the main customers of this or that project is a large state corporation. That's the whole business - it is built around budget money. What is characteristic of this type of business? Only take. What is development is a contribution to the future, that is, when you yourself give something away. The first and second incompatible things. Therefore, we can not find points of contact so far.
Timofey Subbotin spent the “Open Data Day” a couple of years ago in Chelyabinsk. Representatives of the local administration came to him at the event. We listened to him, nodded his head, but it turned out that they did not need anything. They are already doing well.
- How should the authorities react to the “Open Data Day” in Chelyabinsk? The request for it from the OSM-RU community was somehow concretized? What exactly did you want then? Or is it just an abstract dream: we want everything to be good for us? Have you invited them? They came.
- Yes, you are probably right, there was no such specific request. But this only suggests that the RU-OSM community should learn to work with the authorities, politicians, educational institutions and many more with whom. Unfortunately, now the majority of Russian Osmers are programmers who provide the technical infrastructure of the project: they write programs, make validators and make beautiful renders. I suppose that, most likely, none of them will be able to do something else. It is simply not in their nature. These are people who are accustomed to, that they do not have much time from idea to getting a result. It is possible that they are not ready for the fact that social processes are so slow and lengthy. In addition, they require a lot of communication.
After all, how does this happen with a programmer? There is an idea, I sat down, wrote the code - that's it. The result is obtained, the goal is achieved. In life, of course, this does not happen. I understand that in order to communicate with officials, a completely different approach is needed. Therefore, I regret to say that we, the participants of the Russian OSM segment, see that we can be useful to society and the authorities, but we cannot always correctly convey this.
- What would you say to a person who just came to OSM?
- First I would find out for what purpose he came to the project. Based on his answer, I would try to help him navigate the part that interests him. There can be no general recipe. In addition, newbies are different,
Communication of the Russian participants of OpenStreetMap is in the Telegram chat and on the forum .
There are also groups in social networks VKontakte , Facebook , but they mostly publish news.
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Previous interviews: Elena Balashova , Ilya Zverev , Timofey Subbotin , Sergey Golubev .
Source: https://habr.com/ru/post/458288/
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