Timofey Subbotin: “The French counted the money and understood: it’s better to invest in OSM once than to pay someone every month”
After the success of the interview with Sergey Golubev about OpenStreetMap, I decided to continue and make a series of materials with the most active and prominent participants in this project. This time Timofey Subbotin (Sadless74) - a civil engineer from Chelyabinsk who has been involved in OSM for over 10 years answered my questions. How popular is OSM in Russia, is its official representation in our country necessary, and why should the Osmer communicate? He told about all this in an interview.
- How did you find out about OSM?
- It is associated with hiking. My hobby is rafting. In 2008, I purchased a Garmin 60CSx tourist navigator. For him were needed maps. So I found out that there is an openstreetmap. After the hikes, I began to make my observations: note: mark places for parking, springs, sights, etc. - in order to use it myself and help other tourists. It seems that it was so recent, but in the past, 2018 marked 10 years with daily mapping.
')
- Why did this project interest you?
- In OSM you can not only make edits, but always free to download them. This is an important advantage that distinguishes it from other similar projects. For me, drawing houses in OSM is a pleasant vacation. Seriously, this project fascinated me when I drew roads and houses in my native village, and then decided to mark all the settlements of the Chelyabinsk region and the roads to them on the OSM map.
In all this I also like the fact that it allows me to discover and recognize the world. I will never be able to visit all the localities of the Chelyabinsk region, but thanks to OSM I can at least see what they look like on satellite images.
Even before OSM, he experimented with Linux, understood websites and programmed a bit. But participation in OSM pushed to deal with this deeper.
- What was the RU-OSM community like then? What is it now?
- Previously, more enthusiastic participants appeared in the RU-OSM forum and there were more discussions.
- For a long time you translated and published on Habré a weekly newsletter about OSM - “WeeklyOSM”. Why are you doing this?
- First of all, few people in Russia speak English. Secondly, before I started translating “WeeklyOSM” , only Ilya Zverev wrote about OSM in Russian in his “SHTOSM” blog about OSM. From it, by the way, I learned about this project and that they are looking for volunteers to translate news into other languages. This idea seemed interesting to me and I decided to try. I wanted to “pump up” my English and just was curious to find out what is happening in the world of OSM.
Gradually, I began to get tired of this social burden and less and less often make transfers until I left it at all. There is safety in numbers. It took me about 4 hours to translate one issue. In addition, I could not do it in pieces, that is, every day a little bit. As it turned out, I have a different character warehouse, if I translate, then the whole issue at once Other osmery helped me several times, but this was not part of the tradition. If someone decides to help me with the translation of «WeeklyOSM» - write , I will be glad, we will try to revive its release in Russian.
- When you were translating “WeeklyOSM”, what impressions did the OSM communities of other countries make? Maybe there are some personal observations on this?
- I noticed that gradually began to appear communities in Africa, Asia and South America. Previously, more OSM represented Europe and the United States. If we talk about Europe, then the first place in activity will be taken by England and Germany, the second by France and Belgium. As I could understand, they have more free time and a slightly different attitude to life - they are more open, they are more easily given social communication. OSM for them is a hobby, and a hobby is unthinkable without communication. In Germany, for example, an OSM-meeting takes place once a week (!) In large cities.
- Is something similar being organized in Russia?
- In Moscow, Ilya Zverev was doing this, but for now, no one has heard about the meetings. I'll tell you about my experience. In 2011, I tried to organize a meeting of Osmer in Chelyabinsk. It was only 7 people. I prepared a report, shared my achievements in OSM, discussed how and where others are mapping. Then they communicated mainly on the forum and in the chat.
Why it happens? I suppose that the enthusiastic OSM participants are scattered throughout the country, and even in large cities prefer to communicate via the Internet, it is possible that OSM participants use it in their work, drawing a map for them is not a hobby, and therefore they are not interested to discuss work after work .
Many draw, someone communicates, but why so little? Unclear.
- What give offline meetings? What are they needed for? What is the use of them? Maybe if they do not pass in the Russian Federation, they are not needed? No community need?
- If something is not, then it does not mean that it is not necessary. This is just not there yet. As for meetings, here you need patience and continue to organize them. But, so I understand that while everyone has dried up the enthusiasm and there is no free time.
If we talk about why we need such meetings, I recall the conference “State of the map”, which I attended in 2018. On the first evening I met the authors of the project “WeeklyOSM”. We sat in a cafe, ate pizza and talked. I do not know about you, but live communication gives me more emotions. If you look at pictures from such events, then most often people smile at them.
- What else is happening in the OSM communities of other countries?
- In the issues of the “OCM Weekly” there were news from France. There recently opened a local representation of the fund OSM. This is partly due to the fact that the French authorities are gradually moving from Google maps to OSM. Therefore, now France has begun to actively draw itself. Their local fund, OSM, also donates money for more powerful servers. In addition, he regularly organizes various actions related to both data collection and the correct import of open data into OSM. Similar processes are taking place in Belgium. The communities of these countries gradually grew from an informal mapping club to an official organization.
- Why did the French authorities decide to switch to OSM?
- A year ago, Google began to charge for the use of its maps. I suppose the French counted the money and understood: it’s better to invest in OSM once than to pay someone every month. It would be good if members of the RU-OSM community conveyed this idea to our authorities. Although it is worth noting that the OSM cards have begun to appear on the sites.
- You have repeatedly in the OSM-RU chat in Telegram and on the forum expressed the idea that it would be nice if your OSM representative office appeared in Russia. Can you tell us more about this?
- Yes, I said that. I can even imagine how this could be done, but there is not enough courage and determination. In addition, until a team of like-minded people was recruited.
What could such a representation do? As in other countries - to promote and promote OSM every day. This should be a job. To be a point where people or organizations, including representatives of the authorities, come up with different proposals: to help draw a settlement, to import data qualitatively, etc. On the one hand, the official representation, on the other, it is not responsible for what happens inside the project itself.
Now such communication takes place through a forum or a chat in Telegram, but still this is not the case, since these are communication channels for internal communication of the Osmer themselves. There you can learn how to properly store or school, set up JOSM and load the base offsets.
In 2012, the Council created the Russian OSM. This was a significant step towards the emergence of the official representative of OSM in Russia. Unfortunately, by the end of 2012, the council ceased operations.
- What is the benefit of OSM from society?
- Do not exaggerate the value of OSM, as well as downplaying. This is not the elite and not the most important thing in the world, but only the only free alternative to proprietary map services from all known IT giants. But the most important thing is the fascination of thousands of people around the world. This is a hobby.
In addition, I believe that this benefit could be more if more people knew about all the possibilities that OSM gives. After all, OSM is often perceived only as a free card. When you tell and show how it can still be used, it radically changes the concept of OSM.
- What is the state of the RU-OSM community now: is it developing or stagnating?
- Every day in Russia, the map rules and adds about 150-200 people. New users are registered. Everything is relative. If we compare with foreign communities: then we have confident stability, which has been lasting for several years. It cannot be said that there is no development, but it is very slow. There are no bright events, but there are no failures. The main goal of the project is achieved - people draw a map for their own pleasure. Everyone does something that he likes, but in the end it benefits the whole project.
I am glad that recently there are more and more services that use OSM data: urbanists, websites, merchants, etc. This is an important indicator. If you take data, it means that people know about the project and are somewhat satisfied with the quality of the information received. Sometimes you can see, if you come from the Russian IP, that the tiles on the official OSM website are loaded a little longer. This is due to the fact that the load on the Russian OSM proxy server, where the cache with tiles is stored, has increased significantly. What does this mean? The fact that OSM in Russia, as a source of data, is quite popular and actively used.
But despite this popularity, it is rarely the case that those who use data from OSM become part of the community. I would very much like them not to be shy and join RU-OSM.
PS After the interview, Timofey decided to continue translating WeeklyOSM.
- How did you find out about OSM?
- It is associated with hiking. My hobby is rafting. In 2008, I purchased a Garmin 60CSx tourist navigator. For him were needed maps. So I found out that there is an openstreetmap. After the hikes, I began to make my observations: note: mark places for parking, springs, sights, etc. - in order to use it myself and help other tourists. It seems that it was so recent, but in the past, 2018 marked 10 years with daily mapping.
')
- Why did this project interest you?
- In OSM you can not only make edits, but always free to download them. This is an important advantage that distinguishes it from other similar projects. For me, drawing houses in OSM is a pleasant vacation. Seriously, this project fascinated me when I drew roads and houses in my native village, and then decided to mark all the settlements of the Chelyabinsk region and the roads to them on the OSM map.
In all this I also like the fact that it allows me to discover and recognize the world. I will never be able to visit all the localities of the Chelyabinsk region, but thanks to OSM I can at least see what they look like on satellite images.
Even before OSM, he experimented with Linux, understood websites and programmed a bit. But participation in OSM pushed to deal with this deeper.
- What was the RU-OSM community like then? What is it now?
- Previously, more enthusiastic participants appeared in the RU-OSM forum and there were more discussions.
- For a long time you translated and published on Habré a weekly newsletter about OSM - “WeeklyOSM”. Why are you doing this?
- First of all, few people in Russia speak English. Secondly, before I started translating “WeeklyOSM” , only Ilya Zverev wrote about OSM in Russian in his “SHTOSM” blog about OSM. From it, by the way, I learned about this project and that they are looking for volunteers to translate news into other languages. This idea seemed interesting to me and I decided to try. I wanted to “pump up” my English and just was curious to find out what is happening in the world of OSM.
Gradually, I began to get tired of this social burden and less and less often make transfers until I left it at all. There is safety in numbers. It took me about 4 hours to translate one issue. In addition, I could not do it in pieces, that is, every day a little bit. As it turned out, I have a different character warehouse, if I translate, then the whole issue at once Other osmery helped me several times, but this was not part of the tradition. If someone decides to help me with the translation of «WeeklyOSM» - write , I will be glad, we will try to revive its release in Russian.
- When you were translating “WeeklyOSM”, what impressions did the OSM communities of other countries make? Maybe there are some personal observations on this?
- I noticed that gradually began to appear communities in Africa, Asia and South America. Previously, more OSM represented Europe and the United States. If we talk about Europe, then the first place in activity will be taken by England and Germany, the second by France and Belgium. As I could understand, they have more free time and a slightly different attitude to life - they are more open, they are more easily given social communication. OSM for them is a hobby, and a hobby is unthinkable without communication. In Germany, for example, an OSM-meeting takes place once a week (!) In large cities.
- Is something similar being organized in Russia?
- In Moscow, Ilya Zverev was doing this, but for now, no one has heard about the meetings. I'll tell you about my experience. In 2011, I tried to organize a meeting of Osmer in Chelyabinsk. It was only 7 people. I prepared a report, shared my achievements in OSM, discussed how and where others are mapping. Then they communicated mainly on the forum and in the chat.
Why it happens? I suppose that the enthusiastic OSM participants are scattered throughout the country, and even in large cities prefer to communicate via the Internet, it is possible that OSM participants use it in their work, drawing a map for them is not a hobby, and therefore they are not interested to discuss work after work .
Many draw, someone communicates, but why so little? Unclear.
- What give offline meetings? What are they needed for? What is the use of them? Maybe if they do not pass in the Russian Federation, they are not needed? No community need?
- If something is not, then it does not mean that it is not necessary. This is just not there yet. As for meetings, here you need patience and continue to organize them. But, so I understand that while everyone has dried up the enthusiasm and there is no free time.
If we talk about why we need such meetings, I recall the conference “State of the map”, which I attended in 2018. On the first evening I met the authors of the project “WeeklyOSM”. We sat in a cafe, ate pizza and talked. I do not know about you, but live communication gives me more emotions. If you look at pictures from such events, then most often people smile at them.
- What else is happening in the OSM communities of other countries?
- In the issues of the “OCM Weekly” there were news from France. There recently opened a local representation of the fund OSM. This is partly due to the fact that the French authorities are gradually moving from Google maps to OSM. Therefore, now France has begun to actively draw itself. Their local fund, OSM, also donates money for more powerful servers. In addition, he regularly organizes various actions related to both data collection and the correct import of open data into OSM. Similar processes are taking place in Belgium. The communities of these countries gradually grew from an informal mapping club to an official organization.
- Why did the French authorities decide to switch to OSM?
- A year ago, Google began to charge for the use of its maps. I suppose the French counted the money and understood: it’s better to invest in OSM once than to pay someone every month. It would be good if members of the RU-OSM community conveyed this idea to our authorities. Although it is worth noting that the OSM cards have begun to appear on the sites.
- You have repeatedly in the OSM-RU chat in Telegram and on the forum expressed the idea that it would be nice if your OSM representative office appeared in Russia. Can you tell us more about this?
- Yes, I said that. I can even imagine how this could be done, but there is not enough courage and determination. In addition, until a team of like-minded people was recruited.
What could such a representation do? As in other countries - to promote and promote OSM every day. This should be a job. To be a point where people or organizations, including representatives of the authorities, come up with different proposals: to help draw a settlement, to import data qualitatively, etc. On the one hand, the official representation, on the other, it is not responsible for what happens inside the project itself.
Now such communication takes place through a forum or a chat in Telegram, but still this is not the case, since these are communication channels for internal communication of the Osmer themselves. There you can learn how to properly store or school, set up JOSM and load the base offsets.
In 2012, the Council created the Russian OSM. This was a significant step towards the emergence of the official representative of OSM in Russia. Unfortunately, by the end of 2012, the council ceased operations.
- What is the benefit of OSM from society?
- Do not exaggerate the value of OSM, as well as downplaying. This is not the elite and not the most important thing in the world, but only the only free alternative to proprietary map services from all known IT giants. But the most important thing is the fascination of thousands of people around the world. This is a hobby.
In addition, I believe that this benefit could be more if more people knew about all the possibilities that OSM gives. After all, OSM is often perceived only as a free card. When you tell and show how it can still be used, it radically changes the concept of OSM.
- What is the state of the RU-OSM community now: is it developing or stagnating?
- Every day in Russia, the map rules and adds about 150-200 people. New users are registered. Everything is relative. If we compare with foreign communities: then we have confident stability, which has been lasting for several years. It cannot be said that there is no development, but it is very slow. There are no bright events, but there are no failures. The main goal of the project is achieved - people draw a map for their own pleasure. Everyone does something that he likes, but in the end it benefits the whole project.
I am glad that recently there are more and more services that use OSM data: urbanists, websites, merchants, etc. This is an important indicator. If you take data, it means that people know about the project and are somewhat satisfied with the quality of the information received. Sometimes you can see, if you come from the Russian IP, that the tiles on the official OSM website are loaded a little longer. This is due to the fact that the load on the Russian OSM proxy server, where the cache with tiles is stored, has increased significantly. What does this mean? The fact that OSM in Russia, as a source of data, is quite popular and actively used.
But despite this popularity, it is rarely the case that those who use data from OSM become part of the community. I would very much like them not to be shy and join RU-OSM.
PS After the interview, Timofey decided to continue translating WeeklyOSM.
Source: https://habr.com/ru/post/449074/
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