Simple Muscovite Levelord: an interview with the creator of Duke Nukem

RUVDS together with Habrom continue the project consisting of a series of interviews with interesting, in our opinion, people in the IT environment. The last time we met with the main "brain" Alice in Yandex, Boris Yangel.

Today we bring to your attention an interview with Richard (Levelord) Gray. Levelord - designer of the legendary games Duke Nukem, American McGee's Alice, Heavy Metal FAKK2, SiN, Serious Sam, author of the famous phrase “You're not supposed to be here.” Richard was born and spent most of his life in the United States, but a few years ago he moved to Moscow with a Russian wife and daughter.

The interview was attended by the editor Habra Nikolay Zemlyansky and the managing partner of RUVDS Nikita Tsaplin.
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→ English version of text and video here





Nikolay Zemlyansky, editor of Habr.com:

Hey. My name is Nikolai Zemlyansky, I’m the editor at Habr.com, and today we’ll talk with Richard Gray, a cool, well-known level designer, founder of Ritual Entertainment. Hi, Richard!

Richard Gray:

Hey.

Richard, we all know what cool things you created in game dev - Duke Nukem levels with easter eggs “You're not supposed to be here”, puzzles from American McGee's Alice, deathmatch-mode “Islands in space”, Heavy Metal FAKK ² , SiN . I know that you even helped Croteam in creating Serious Sam - this is a very popular game in Russia. What stands out for you from this list? Maybe I missed something? What do you think is the biggest?

Well, I just helped with Alice, this is Rogue Entertainment. Some Ritual employees helped develop the latest crunches. But it was their game, I only helped when it was necessary. As for Croteam, I have never done anything for them. And they, in my opinion, made the coolest game at all. There is nothing but shooting and killing. No gadgets that began to appear in games. A lot of guns, a lot of ammo, a lot of monsters. I told them that, and they put my quote on the cover. This is all I did - the whole game they did.

Can you name a game that stands out from the rest for you?

Of course, Duke Nukem is the first game I worked on. After so many years, it remains the same game. People don't remember me, my name, but when I say “You're not supposed to be here,” they immediately: “Yes, this is the same dude!”. So Duke Nukem is my biggest and best work. And the most fun, besides.

Yeah, that was awesome. So, after all this presentation, let's go back to the very beginning, at a time when I may not have been born yet. How are you interested in games? How did you get into the industry?

For me, it all started at the dawn of the 80s. I did business programs for companies. Then computers used old computer cards. You write a line of code on a card, you insert it into a car, you write, you insert it. Punch cards. The events were monitored using a simple terminal. The company where I worked bought the new HP mainframe - it was a big step forward.
There were portable disks and a monitor for each employee, including programmers - me and my boss. We bought a new Hewlett Packard mainframe, and I found a folder with games there.

Among them was a game that is known as Adventure, but in general it is called Colossal Cave Adventure. It was a simple text quest where you were told: you are in the room, on the left is the door, on the right is the door. And you chose to go right or left. Found treasures, lost in levels. That's when I got hooked, I thought that I should do just that.

Then everyone played arcade machines, and Nintendo has just released its console. These were simple little games with pixel graphics. I wrote my own text quest in the COBOL language, which was used for business. With the help of ASCII art, I also made poker. But I knew that I couldn’t seriously do computer games - for this you need to write game engines, which requires a lot of knowledge. So I went to the university to the faculty of computer engineering - I thought it would help.

After six years, I graduated from university and understood: there is still not enough knowledge. I started making software in one rocket and space company. Two years after that, Wolfenstein came out. It was a sensation: the first-person first-person shooter! A year later, DOOM was released - just a fantastic game that everyone knows about. The key point for me was the release of the DEU utility - the Doom Editing Utility - which allowed everyone to create their own game levels. Id thought it was completely normal. You could go in and start making your own levels.



I went to the first level of the game. There you find yourself in a room with a window to the street. You can look out of it, but you can not get out - the window is too low. In the editor I enlarged the window and then in the game I went through it to the street. Oh, at that moment it seemed to me that the Lord came down! I could not believe what was happening. And so I realized that, even though I can not program, but I can do such things!

The people who made the games — John Romero and others — called it level design, but for other people there was no such thing. I realized that I wanted to do just that. I spent all my free time - it was a real passion. I spent on the levels all the free time from work, nights and weekends for the design of levels.

Let's talk about this period in more detail. You told that you sent a floppy with your levels in Id. What were you waiting for? What was the answer? How much time was the answer?

Oh, I remember that story with a laugh. By that time, I had already wanted to make games for 10 years, then I decided that I could not. But a level design appeared - and that sparked me. If I hadn’t been hired by a game dev, I would still do levels and game content, even for free.

But I had to try. I made four levels that were well-rated on the CompuServe forums. I wrote them on a floppy disk, printed a letter on paper, put everything in an envelope and sent it by mail. Then there was already an e-mail, but progress has not yet reached the sending of files. I sent a letter to Jay Wilbur, CEO of Id Software. I was sure that they would not even open the envelope, because they receive thousands of fan letters.

After about a week or two, I returned home from work and saw that there was a message on my phone. You know, there were such phones with a film and a light bulb that caught fire when there was a message on the film. I picked up the phone to listen and almost crap: "Hello, Richard Gray, this is Jay Wilbur." Holy cow! I could not believe it.

I wrote to him, what a cool game Doom, what a cool engine she has, and that if they took me to the team, we could make a version of Doom for the Second World War or some other. Now we know that this is only a replacement for skins, but then very few people did it. Jay thanked me, said the ideas are great, but they can't do it.

Such an answer only added to my enthusiasm. By the time I was already working on the levels of the game Blood, I had one foot in game dedev.



Nikita:

Tell us a little about that time, for example, what was your usual working day?

As far as I know, now everything is the same as then. All work in the mode of crunch. You work all day time, you work on weekends. I was absolutely immersed in games, like my colleagues. At the same time, some had families! The working day began rather late, at 9-10 am.

Like software developers?

Yes, as developers, in fact, they were developers. They stayed in the office until 10 pm, sometimes until midnight, they used to sleep in the office. Or they rushed home, turned off for several hours, got up, took a shower and returned to work again. This could go on for a year and a half - this is the development cycle of a regular game. And the closer was the end of the cycle, the worse things got - people spent whole weeks without leaving the office. It was easier to take a nap in the workplace than to go home, then back. Cruel, but quite common for gamedev. But it was still fun to make games.

Today, in the cinema and TV shows, the developers of that time are united into small project teams. How were the game developers of that time organized? Same or different?

As far as I know, everything was the same. We also had small teams. The main team of Duke Nukem consisted of 8 people, and another 4 to 8 people worked from time to time under contracts. All levels of Duke Nukem were made by two people. Today, only one level can work twenty people. Yes, I miss those days.

You came up with "Easter eggs" in the games ...

No, I'm not the first who made Easter eggs. In games, they appeared in the early 70s. John Romero is very famous for his Easter eggs, hidden things. In DOOM they are everywhere. And so did not only John, but many other level designers. But for some reason it was “You're not supposed to be here” ... I did it and I don’t know why ... I once spoke with two people, even before they started recognizing me by mustache and long hair. One says: "This is the Levelord." "Who?". “Richard Gray, Levelord” - “Who?” - “You're not supposed to be here.” - “Aaa, this one!”. I do not know how it happened. Allen had no less “easter eggs”, he hid them everywhere. But for some reason it turned out as it is.

Once there were popular films where the actors played their roles, and suddenly one of them looked at the camera and winked. At the same time, they understood that they were playing movie roles. Maybe here as well, and I, the level designer, say: "I know that you are here, I know that you are not in the real world."

It’s like ... you know, the theater has the term "fourth wall". With this phrase, you pierced the fourth wall.

Yes, you punch and find yourself next to the player, the way it is.



Nikolay:

Let's go back to the times, How did you come to your principles of level design?

It all starts with an idea. Then you draw diagrams and other things to fix everything and explain to your colleagues what you want. Then you make a very simplified version of the level, without lighting and with a minimum of textures. On it you check the gameplay, the player's path, what's good, what's bad. Then you make the texture light, you work through the scenes. Did you mean the process of creating levels or how to come up with the concept of a level?

I meant what is important when creating a level.

It may sound like “captaincy,” but the level should be fun. This is the only thing worth worrying about. There are so many ways to make a level or game fun that you can’t give a more accurate description. At the top level, the game should be fun, and at the bottom - to work normally. If your game is built on hi-end technology, then not all computers will be able to pull it out. We need to think about the frame rate. A game that advances a few frames in a second cannot be fun.



But if you move away from technology ... I have two excellent, two best examples. The first is Tetris, a very old game. It's damn simple, but popular. I still play it. The second example is Angry Birds. Her "fan" mechanic is nowhere easier. This is the simplest physics: you throw some objects, because of which others fall. Great level design. And this is not a dull game in its simplicity. The developers have created the simplest mechanics that make the levels fun. I can't believe that there is Angry Birds style underwear, Angry Birds animated series, Angry Birds soda. This is a great game.

Games should be fun. There are many ways to achieve this, depending on the genre of the game. If you make a shooter, as I once did, it looks like an action movie. The game usually consists of three parts - episode I, II and III. The game slowly accelerates, goes to the main action and tension, reaches the highest point and eventually leads to victory or defeat. But in any case, the player is satisfied. If you lose, then come back and try again. If you win, then you think only "Oh my God, I was not soaked!". The whole game is divided into three episodes, and each episode has the highest point - the crescendo.

Each level is built in the same way. Sometimes you break the order of things and throw the player right away in the midst of some kind of battle. But usually everything works as I described before. There are many parameters involved. For example, balance is when a player passes a level, and you know that he has enough equipment, health and hassles with bad guys. You do not make the game too simple or too complex. I often saw games in which the player would be fooled. The developers thought about how great they did it. But the players did not like being cheated. They wanted balanced gameplay.

I compare the game level with a restaurant. There should be a tasty feed, but the restaurant should look beautiful. If this is a Japanese restaurant, it should look like a Japanese restaurant. And the dishes should look good when served, create a pleasant impression even before they are tried. The same with the game levels: they must look good, you must feel that you are inside. If I do a level in Los Angeles, the player must feel that he is in Los Angeles. Or inside the apocalypse. All things must be combined.

Tell us about the atmosphere of work in those days. I know you were doing Duke Nukem in 3D Realms, and right next door Id doing Quake. You had to become big competitors in the market. How did you communicate with each other? Did you communicate at all? Were there any secrets that have opened just now?

Id always been the best. They themselves knew it, and therefore, I think they did not feel any competition. They were always open, ready to help.

I remember the day when Duke Nukem was only a few months away from the finish line, and we had excellent expectations about the game. I don’t know if I can call it a crutch now - I’m not working for 10 years. But then we worked every hour to keep deadlines and finish the game - the sooner the better.

We did not have time for socialization, but on that very day the opportunity turned up - I don’t remember how - to go to Id Software. At that time, we already knew that Duke Nukem would be a good game. We went to Id, and John Romero called us: "Oh, guys, you have to see it!" On one of the Quake levels, he turned on god mode. He stared in one direction and summoned a shambler - a large monster from Quake 1. He came up from the back, and we saw his shadow. It was real 3D modeling, not sprites. At first I thought: “Oh, how cool!”. And then: "Oh hell, because Duke Nukem must come out ...".



In Duke Nukem, Allen Bloom and I were different. If I wanted the floor to look highlighted, I needed to redo the texture. We had no light sources, it was necessary to do everything manually. In Quake, it was enough to put the light source, and he did all the work. The transition from sprites to full-fledged 3D is, of course, cool, and John Romero is a great professional, but at that moment I had a different, simpler idea: “Damn, I'm sitting with John Romero in Id's office, and he shows me Quake level! And the second voice said: "Richard, your Duke Nukem merges."

You had a lot of cool ideas, but you could be let down by technology ...

Yes, it happened often, and you could not do anything. For example, in Duke Nukem you only have one floor, you can not put two floors over each other. But Allen Bloom found a way to trick the game engine. In the first level of Hollywood Holocaust there is a spiral staircase that leads to the room with a projector. With her help, Allen found a way to place the floor above the floor until you see both floors at the same time. Overcoming these limitations helped Duke Nukem stand out. You thought: hell, this is the floor above the floor, so it should not be.

We did levels with a similar trick. For example, here is a room, and in every corner of it is a hole down. You jumped into a hole and got into a room of the same size, but made in a different theme. And around this room was a corridor through which you could go, see the first room, then the second room. She looked different, but she was in the same place. And the whole room was four. And you fell into every room, which looked crazy from the side of the engine. The engine did not know how much, but could turn such things.

You said that the job of a level designer is working with other people. Can you tell us about the coolest gamedev specialists you've met?

No, I can not, I came to the industry too early. I remember people, companies ... many of them were great, just fantastic. Here I want to go back a little and remember Adventure - the very text quest that has sown my interest in games. At university, I bought Commodore 64 and several games - including Ultima IV, which Richard Garriott made. Started to play it. I had a pretty good GPA (GPA) - not perfect, but good. Six months before graduation, I started playing Ultima IV and my GPA began to crawl. I could not stop and played: another level, another level ... By the time I graduated, by the average score I could barely meet the minimum requirements. And all because of one game.

I have met Richard Garriott several times. Yes, he lives among us, but for me he seemed to come down from heaven.



Nikita:

By the time you founded Ritual Entertainment, you already had industry experience. What principles did you follow when creating a studio with partners?

I do not know what to say. We only made Duke Nukem, and it was barely released by the time we left 3D Realms. We thought it was a cool game, but we couldn’t say for sure. We just wanted to reap the fruits of our labors. I started a star fever. I thought I was awesome, that I was the best and weren’t good enough with me in 3D Realms. So I went with my other guys to my company.

When you are a boss and you have your own company, you can't do what you want. Past experience did not help me. Duke Nukem was awesome to do, and we wanted to keep it up. My first job at Ritual Entertainment is a set of levels for Quake. He received very good reviews, and it was fun and interesting to do. Duke Nukem just taught us how to create games, he had nothing to do with new works.

How did you combine management and level design? Before the founding of Ritual, you did only level design, but when you already have your own company, you need to be engaged in management.

You constantly say that I was alone in Ritual, but there were six of us. And all were the owners of the company. At first, there was no one except the owners on the staff. I was a simple level designer, I did not start a company. It was created by four people who left 3D Realms before the others. I came later. I was glad that I was not burdened with management and responsibility. We had a CEO who was in charge of the business.

So you shared your responsibilities in the company? Did you do the levels, and other members of the team took over the management?

Yes, it was. I’m a bad manager, we had guys who do it much better. I'm doing levels well, and that's about it. And I think everyone will agree that the six owners of one company are a bad idea. It's like a ship with six captains. Or six Roman popes. Only one is needed.

So, if you create a gaming studio, you will be the main and sole owner?

No, I am a very bad manager and manager, I work terribly with people. I don’t think I’ll ever set up a company again. I am a company in itself: I am a manager, I am a subordinate - there is only me. Three years when I myself did indie games - it was beautiful. No meetings, documents, meetings, rules. I did everything related to levels and art ...

No, I will never create a company again. Until someone comes to me and says, “Richard, that's five million dollars, do what you want, just create a company.” Then I will create a company. But this will not happen.

In an interview I read that you retired from Ritual Entertainment because of organizational changes in the studio. What problems forced you to make such a decision?

It became too difficult for me to play and create games. I love first person shooters. For me, this is a game where there is equipment, there is health and bad guys who want to reduce it to zero. That's all. That is why I loved Serious Sam so much. You had about five buttons on the keyboard and a mouse. No gadgets and other tricks to use to make one, find another ...



The same with game development. Previously, the level was entirely done by one designer. Now there are five, ten ... and everyone is doing the same level. Artists, specialists in light and so on. And this is not happening because someone wants it so - it just became a necessity. But this alignment did not please me.

I hardly spent any money. I was alone, I had a 20-year-old car, the house was already bought. I estimated the budget and thought: “Hmm, I have enough money to live another 20 years.” I was also 20 years older than almost all of my fellow developers. I was already 50. And I thought: “No, I'm tired, I’d better go home to do my games and generally everything I want.” He did.

I heard that you helped universities create programs for game level designers. What did these programs represent? Students take exams? Did you take them?

Yes, it was in Dallas. Several developers — Janell Jackieus, John Romero, Tom Hall, and others — volunteered and helped launch the program. I answered questions on the design of levels, Janell Jackieus on art direction - in general, we helped them at the start. It was fun to watch the director prove to the administration: “Yes, of course, we will make money on it!”. Then we started a time bomb, which then blew up the acceptance of applications for training.

What subjects are included in level design training?

Level design. Everything you need to know to make levels. The most important thing you can't learn at home is how to do something in a team. And it doesn't matter what you study specifically. It is very useful. I can sit at home alone and do the levels, but I have no idea how to sit next to four other designers who also make my level. You need to understand that this is not my level, this is the level of the game. Classic education here is very helpful.

How to understand if a student is ready to do levels or should he work more?

Here everything is not the same as in universities, where they give you a test in physics, mathematics, and you have to give the correct answers. You make a level and show it. And you do not just do the level, you work in a team. There is a class of level designers, a class of art direction, programmers, game designers ... They all come together in groups, and each group makes its own game, as far as I know. I think there are some tests too.

When you go to study, for example, on the chef, you do not write any tests. You cook and show it: here, I can do it. With gamedev everything is about the same.



Nikolay:

You know, many professionals end their careers by teaching others. But I know that several years ago you made levels for the new Duke Nukem 3D game: 20th Anniversary World Tour. Can you describe in this example how the levels are made?

Do not tell Gearbox ( explanation: Gearbox Software is the developer of Duke Nukem Forever ), but I would do it for free. Twenty years after the original Duke, Randy Pitchford agreed with me and Allen Bloom, the second level designer for Duke Nukem. Lee Jackson made music, other people from the original roster of developers also gathered - I do not remember all the names. We used the same Build engine, but already enhanced with 3D capabilities, with realistic dynamic lighting and other things. And those who want to ponozhalgirovat, can play mode with the old version of the engine. Allen and I created levels for about a year, part-time. He did 4 levels, and I did 4 levels. Of these, a new, fifth episode of the game was made.

We decided to prepare a world tour of cities that needed to be rescued from aliens. Of course, I chose Moscow as the first city. And he chose ... all his locations were in America, except for one in Egypt. Los Angeles, San Francisco ... And I traveled around Europe. There was a strange feeling. We did the original Duke for a year and a half, in crunch mode, without interruptions. Some part of my brain just burned while we were doing it. It was fun, but very difficult. And now 20 years have passed, and I am again in Build.



Allen has always been smarter than me. I used to ask him questions: “Allen, how do you do this?” Allen sat on the right, and I constantly turned to him. And after 20 years, sitting in a Moscow apartment, I caught myself thinking that I wanted to look right again and ask Allen about something. Allen in California is busy with his own levels, I am in Moscow with my own, but the habits of those years are firmly in my head.

Previously, it was necessary to limit yourself, not to go too far with sprites, level geometry. Now, working on the Build engine, you can do whatever you want. Modern computers with Build are boring, they are just yawning and such: "Well, come on ..".

It was great, I had a lot of fun creating the new Duke. I have not heard anything about the sales of this game. It is on Steam, Xbox, Playstation. I was expecting a pile of letters, a ringing of fanfare, but this did not happen. Perhaps because the technology is already outdated. Gamers know about Duke Nukem. Perhaps this is the same story as with the movies. I love old films, black and white, shot before my birth. But many people will not watch them precisely because they are black and white. But in any case, it was fun.

After Duke Nukem, do you do anything else? Maybe helping other companies with level design?

Yes, I helped design companies. When I first retired, back in Dallas I made two games with hidden objects, completely by myself. And it was a great time: no meetings, trips to work, no documents, schedules, deadlines. I could only think about games. They were not very cool, but considering that I did them alone ... I look around and say: "Well done, Richard, good work." And these games even brought me good money. Then my mom got sick for a whole year. Now she is better, but then I helped her with rehabilitation and put everything off. And then bang! - and I am already in Moscow, with my wife and daughter.

I am retired and do not do anything related to work. But sometimes I play with Unity and Unreal, I make some prototypes, purely for myself. Now I'm making a game for Android for the first time. I never thought that I would do mobile games at all. I didn't really like the platform. The screen is small, I'm old, I can not quickly poke my fingers. But now I think: hmm, but there is something in it. I go down to the subway, go outside - people everywhere play on the phones.

Now I hardly help anyone with games. A friend of mine owns the Game Garden mobile development company, I helped them several times with games in the time management genre. Another friend I helped with the bubble shooter. But in general, nothing serious, no development of your own game. Although ... we'll see.



Nikita:

What do you like most about Russia? Any dishes, places ... the weather?

Oh, I am often asked such questions, especially in America. And I can not choose something specific. The only thing I don’t like is the winter. She is very harsh. But everything else ... Imagine that I left everything at home in the States - family, friends. -, . - , , . , ? . — . , , , … , 10 .

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PS ! ( thelevelord ) .