How can long and with interest to look at the ceiling on the wall

About the almost personal experience of choosing and adjusting the projector in terms of odnushki on the outskirts and limited budget or what to do if $$$18m ^ 2$I wanted a screen of 3+ meters.

Caution traffic.

Goals

• For non-space (not six-digit) sums of rubles, get a projector.
• For even more non-space tools, have a screen and a stand / bracket for the projector.
• Find a way to move screens between apartments, or an inexpensive universal way to create screens in advance of a given size.
• So that all of the above mentioned doesn’t have a strong effect on the quality of the image and was not ashamed to be shown to others and to contemplate myself every day.

General remarks

No America will be open here. All of the following in one way or another is present on the Internet. The exception may be the review of the projector market in Moscow at the time of writing. More precisely, his condition through the eyes of the author. I also want to describe all this with pictures, because on the forums they write a lot of interesting things, but in letters, and in the reviews on the same YouTube they show a lot of pictures ... but somehow there is no confidence in them. These are all reviews (read advertising), and not a description of everyday use through the eyes of a mere mortal. It is also worth noting that the search for all data was carried out in the Russian segment of the Internet. The bourgeois should have more data, but this is another topic to study.

About the market

In short, there is no shit in Moscow. The projectors market is cheaper than 80-100k. Spoiled by irony we quickly realized that it was impossible to meekly choose a model on the Internet and then just pick it up and buy it in one of the capital’s shops. Projectors are sold either incomprehensible sharagi at a price 30% lower than the market, they don’t want to be trusted at all, even for such a suspiciously low price, or standard chain stores like mVideo. Moreover, the range leaves much to be desired. Five models at best and, of course, not those that you want.

Moreover, there was a feeling that some stores have a counter for entering the product page and if it exceeds a certain number, then they throw 5-15% on the price. It was a very strange week to go to the sites of selected stores and once again compare products, and before buying to find that some of them raised the price, after which they immediately became uncompetitive. It happened with the first site on which they wanted to buy. Raised the price by 8k and immediately lost all interest for us. And you could have a customer.

Total: there are 2-3 major players on the market (I already know everything and it makes no sense to call them here) who don’t dumbly give the equivalent of 1k cu, or there are a few smaller guys who have the same prices plus- minus the error, or a third cheaper. Everything is clear with the first ones, they are not competitors to chain stores, but the second question is: where did they get such a discount and what do they make money for.

Specific about the choice of a piece of iron

Now "let's get personal" and tell you what they chose and what they stopped at.

After a couple of days of studying the material and understanding the subject area, the following brands were selected: Benq, Epson, ViewSonic, Optoma and Acer. For each of them, we selected several (1-3pcs) models of the specified range and began to compare.

Immediately they threw out the 3D function from the comparison, since it was the same everywhere up to the error.

Somewhere here we learned about 3LCD and DLP technology. And here are not imbued with confidence in the DLP. I was embarrassed by the cunning of the mechanism with the rotation of the "colored wheels" and their synchronization with the MEMC . Everything ingenious should be simple, static and screwed to the floor with nails.

Then they began to take a variety of projection "calculators" and count the size of the screen, which will turn out in our Spartan conditions. Most liked this one . The selection criterion is simple: the larger the diagonal, the better. Here we also learned that, other things being equal, the difference in screen size can be up to a meter (in our case, the width of the picture varied from 2.5 to 3.5m with a distance from the projector to the screen of ~ 3.5m). We also learned that there are quite specific limitations on the distance from the projector to the screen. It was interesting for us to find a piece of iron with a margin in range, that is, with the prospect of increasing the distance to the screen and conforming to an increase in image size.

Then they tried to find at least some reviews about the hardware from real users. And really did not find anything. For some models there are a few reviews, for others - there is nothing at all, except for the description on off.sayte. As a result, we switched to studying vidyushek from YouTube, in order to at least somehow get an idea about the devices. Somewhere here the candidate ViewSonic PJD7720HD fell off. The characteristics are good, but no reviews, no reviews, nothing.

Next was the following:

• Benq w750 (which was later replaced by w1070).
• Epson EH-WT5210 (which was further upgraded to the WT5300, since there is practically no difference in functions and price).
• Viewsonic PJD7720HD (which fell off due to the complete lack of reviews).
• Optoma HD142X and GT1080 (which also fell off, as the reviews were inferior to Benq and Epson).
• Acer H6517BD and H6518BD (the company doesn’t really specialize in projectors, it’s not clear what the quality is, and if the memory doesn’t change, they have more expensive lamps than others).

Of these, with 3LCD, only Epson (in general, those who invented and patented the technology), the rest are DLP.

In the finals, long rushed between Benq w1070 and Epson (WT5210 and WT5300). According to the reviews, they were more or less equal. As a result, the name of Epson played, the company's experience on the market, as well as 3LCD technology (the principle of DLP operation, as mentioned above, did not inspire).

Search and purchase tips

We took just for the price. In stores, no one really can check the projector in this price category. In fairness, it is worth saying that you can sign up for viewing several devices, but you need to spend a lot of time on this and during the purchase no one promises to turn on the projector and let it be poked along with the normal screen, as there is no screen and it was at the time of purchase: they just shone on the floor and the wall, could not really see anything, they only made sure that it turns on and shows something).

As a result, we find that the buyer's greed (the extra 10-20k rubles. Not at all superfluous) comes into conflict with at least some guarantees of efficiency. And you have to choose: a decent long-lived shop with a guarantee, but expensive, or sharaga and cheaper ( yesterday there are five but five, but today they are small, but three each and the source code for connoisseurs ).

Pro screens

After the acquisition of the projector thinking about the screen. On the wall, of course, you can also look, but you need to have some imagination and unpretentiousness to calmly look at this:

Therefore, we decided to study the question of what can be projected on. At the same time measured the actual width of the image. It turned out ~ 3m at ~ 3.5m distance from the projector to the wall. Based on it, and searched for the screen.

Option number one

Good old exhaust screen. On the market a bunch of them. With and without motors, with ryushechkami and plushychkami and a lot more with what. Even three-meter can be found for 6-8k wooden. Of the minuses: very large and transported wildly uncomfortable. Plus, more than 3m such a screen is difficult to find. Plus, in our conditions, the exhaust screen, in any case, will take a dozen or two centimeters from the wall, either due to a tripod standing at the back, or due to the inconvenience of mounting to the ceiling close to the wall, and therefore we will lose the image size. And we want something bigger and curiosity has not been canceled. So look further.

Option number two

Special paint for projectors. For example, such . It promises a cosmic picture quality, polarization preservation for 3D and support for resolution up to "4K HD" (I particularly liked this point, because I honestly don’t know how a flat painted surface may not support any resolution). But all this pales and fades before the horse price of 130-200 + cu. per liter, which, according to promises, enough for painting $$$4m ^ 2$. That is, for our modest case with a screen of approximately 2x3, you need one and a half liters. That is, at least $ 200 And if you consider that hardly anyone will pour out half a liter and “everybody lies”, then you need to take two liters, that is, it is already 260 cu One and a half times more in comparison with the exhaust screen.

An alternative to specialized paint is paint for marker boards. For example, like this . We get 2 in one: a screen plus a board for variegated surveys. We also get a reduction in paint consumption (1 liter per $$$6m ^ 2$according to the manufacturer’s promises). And all this for, approximately, the same 150 cu per liter.

Another option: the people on the forums are actively discussing various household paints (especially Tikkurila love to remember). But I really did not understand what are the specific options for colors and what are their pros and cons. So here is no comment. If anyone knows, let me know, I will be grateful.

Here you should also talk separately about the surface for painting. Here we have the usual above-mentioned wall, half of which is occupied by well-worn wallpaper. Due to the standardity of the wall, it has a wave-like profile and it needs to be long and hard prepared for painting. And this is still an unknown amount of time and money, a couple of days of construction work in the apartment, plus a great need for straight arms, which can make the wall even and suitable for painting. Such zamorochki closer to the level of a home theater, which can be arranged in the garden, but not in a rented apartment at the edge of the world.

The variant is simpler with sheets of plywood and their analogs, too, were not considered, as there will still be joints that will give stripes on the image, or you will need to think much about what to caulk them. In the latter case, it is absolutely not clear whether the paint will fall on the tree and the material for embedding the joints in the same way. In general, many nuances and problems. All ingenious should be simple.

Option number three

Put a sheet on the wall. Sheets of suitable sizes could not be found, the method of fastening and other features of the material was also not clear, so we decided to hang some other piece of fabric. I remembered the suspended ceiling, which decided to hang on the wall.

Of the benefits:

• the curvature of the original surface almost does not affect the result;
• no preparatory work is needed;
• You can stretch any size of canvas;
• price.

Of the minuses:

• there is a suspicion that with time it may sag and the plane of the screen will become the surface of the n-th order (although the installers categorically denied this option);
• light reflection and other parameters affecting the picture are highly dependent on the material and you need to see each material alive, that is, you need to shine a real projector on them in actual operating conditions; there are no directories to be found here ... only if you compile yourself or someone from the ceiling makers thinks of doing this in order to embroider a target audience and business profitability;
• absolutely stationary and unsuitable for transportation.

Details of the ceiling on the wall

With ceilings, everything was pretty simple. Found the nearest company, called them, asked to hang the ceiling on the wall. On the other side, they came along, we laughed together during the conversation, but no one was frightened and they reached mutual understanding rather quickly. Workers assured that within the apartment can obtyanut any surface. From the nuances: the distance from the floor / ceiling / wall when stretching on the wall will be ~ 5 cm, otherwise the tool will be difficult to crawl and it will be inconvenient to pull.

Here are the main parameters of this approach:

• white matte material 400r per $$$1m ^ 2$(his image lies just below);
• the size of the final "ceiling", about 3x2.5m;
• price for everything - 7k (this is the minimum price of the order);
• time stretching ~ 3 hours.

Installation details

What was with the wall at the beginning.

Then they came to us for the first time with the material.

We held it with our hands and watched how the picture would look alive.

After that, satisfied with the quality, we agreed on the installation time. At the appointed hour a man came. Brought some tools.

And he began to do anything.

Mark the position of the "screen".

Prepare guides for him.

Attached them to the wall.

Fixed the upper part of the material on the guides.

He collected a heat gun.

He warmed her material to stretch it better. The room at that moment was insanely warm, if not more.

It can be seen that the sagging material does not reach 20-30 cm to the lower guide. This is not a bug but a feature. After warming up, the material begins to be pulled onto the guides with a rather large force.

Further down the remaining parts.

And they get something more or less meaningful (do not be afraid, this is the shadow of the chandelier).

In the final file process caulk the screen around the perimeter.

And that's all. We say thanks to the installer, pay rewards for our work and rejoice at the freshly stretched screen.

Projector Stand

Immediately after the screen, we go to Merlin and purchase the sources for the shelf on which the projector will be located. The source turned out to 500 rubles. And the monster under the code name "shelf" looks like this:

A very noticeable white squiggle in the front and less noticeable on the sides are improvised clamps, so that the projector does not leave with special calculated fitted place, as well as that he did not have a chance to fall on his head unsuspecting viewers, lying directly under him.

Yes, with the purchase of a more standard mount, an ambush also occurred. All the surrounding shops offered ceiling mount for 1500-2000rub. The downside is that it is ceiling and that, due to the non-optimal positioning of the projector under the ceiling, we again lost in screen size due to the need for trapezoid correction. We saw wall mounts in the prices, but we could not find them live for the day, so we spat and collected them from scrap materials.

Pictures from the "fields"

That's what happened in the end.

Now I will describe the picture in daytime conditions, since at night everything is fine and there is nothing special to tell.

In the light of day, you can surf rather comfortably on the Internet and do other non-obscure statics. The brightness of the projector is enough.

This was filmed with a panorama on the phone, you don’t need to pay attention to the curvature and raggedness of the picture. The goal is to show the brightness, which is transmitted fairly well.

Problems begin only in direct sunlight. In this case, almost full illumination of the image, since the projector lamp clearly loses in the brightness of our nearest star. Dark scenes are also hard to see. Classic example: Elite Dangerous.

Here everything is in red tones due to the red curtains drawn, which can be seen in the previous photos. Due to the very direct sunlight into the window during the filming.

Synthetics in the dark

Well, where now without the classic test kartinochek. I will bring them to complete the picture.

It can be seen that the black color is not very black. This is the standard problem of everything that is based on LCD. Here DLP would look much more spectacular. But this is an amateur.

What to do with the rest of the test images, I definitely do not know, so if someone needs it - say, I will try to add.

Curvature and other features of the screen

It goes without saying that we live in the real world and nothing ideal happens. Especially with such handicraft installations and the above budget. Therefore, now I will tell about the shortcomings and peculiarities of what happened.

Curvature

The screen turned out a bit crooked.

Visible overall concavity, which is particularly visible at the upper edge and less noticeable on the sides. You can also see a slight skew and a trapezoid: the upper side of the image is slightly longer than the bottom.

Alleged reasons:

• concavity is due to the general curvature of the walls in buildings (they, as usual, go in waves, and sometimes even depict surfaces of unknown order);
• the trapezoid is due to the placement errors of the whole "by eye"; that is, the location of the shelf and the projector relative to the screen, as well as setting the parameters of the image of the projector; perhaps someone with more direct hands will get better and more equal.

Glare

Alas, the fabric is not perfect. She has a dependence of the reflectivity on the viewing angle. That is, somewhere at the level of the eyes of the viewer, you can notice a big flare, and by the top of the screen everything will be beautiful and matte. Glare, on sensations, has a size of 50-80cm in diameter. I couldn't capture the photo in any way, so I will try to show it a little differently.

Here you can see the glare from the sun on the same screen. Absolutely similar can be seen on very bright scenes in statics, but in the form of a round spot, fading to the edges. It is a bit annoying on the desktop. So to say, the eye clings. But in the dynamics, that is, in games / films, it is absolutely not noticeable and does not interfere. Of course, all this is an exclusively subjective opinion of several people and someone can see it in dynamics or vice versa, not even notice it in static.

In general, this effect is mentioned in many projection (or projection, the devil knows how to) forums. They also say that finding a ceiling material without glare is extremely difficult and this is the main drawback of such a screen.

Transportation

As I wrote earlier, the screen is absolutely stationary. This is a minus. That is, you don’t move the furniture in the room and you don’t take it with you. But with the installation price, you can cover all the walls and the guests will quietly go nuts on what is happening around.

Other minor notes

• Practice has shown that the material does not accumulate static and dust does not collect.
• He is also not a brand. We poked him pretty hard with our hands, but we didn’t notice any traces.
• Initially, the material looks wrinkled and bend lines are visible, but after stretching these same lines are visible only at a very large angle, and eventually disappear altogether.
• Breaking without special tools is extremely difficult. Stuck pretty durable.
• Absolutely, I don’t know if it can be cleaned and how well the stains are removed from something. If someone is in the know, please tell us about your experience.
• And in general, hanging the ceiling on the wall is very fun and informative.

Thanks

Thank you, Comrade Leardjiny, for the kindly provided living space in which the pogrom and tensioning of the screen were arranged and who is now the happy owner of the ceiling described above.

the end

Everything. Thanks to everyone who read. About remarks and typographical errors please report to the LAN. All other questions will be glad to answer in the comments. For the curvature of the narrative and for the amateurish approach, I ask you not to hit hard.

UPD 1

Addition from Leardjiny concerning a choice of a projector and personal feelings from it:

• initially only projectors with a resolution of 1920x1080 were considered, since even with such a resolution the pixels are rather large;
• brightness 2k-2.5k does not play absolutely no role;
• the contrast is dynamic for all: Benq has 10,000, and epson 3000 and 35000, respectively; while the difference in 5k is generally not noticeable, and the difference in 20k would be visible only in daylight;
• the noise level is the same for everyone, that is, everything is buzzing to cool the lamp;
• a rather obvious click is noticeable when switching between some light-dark scenes; It is not known what it is connected with (the relyushka clicks or constructional buggy), but in silence it is noticeable quite clearly, in the dynamics with sound, it is lost against the general background and does not interfere.

UPD 2

A few more comments about the screen and mounts from Leardjiny .

• Retractable screens 3x3 meters are at least 6-8k. And so they cost up to 15-20k. The difference, according to reviews, is that cheap ones can also glare at a high brightness, and more expensive - without glare.
• Ceiling comrades promised to correct the slack if all the same happen.
• It is theoretically possible to transport: remove the fabric and pull elsewhere, but since the main part of the price is installation, there is absolutely no sense in such actions.
• Noname mounts 1500-2000rub. Branded, for example, epson, are much more expensive. The wall mounts have a big minus: they take ~ 30cm from the wall, plus the size of the projector. The ceiling has another problem - they are short.

UDP 3 (after a year and a half, 2018.09.19)

The screen has not changed. There is no sagging. Dust does not set. The color has not changed. In general, regular use and the proximity of home life did not hurt him.