Andrei Shklyarov: “In India, they are not shy to colorfully paint why“ yes ”, in Eastern Europe - why“ no ””

An expert on corporate governance DataArt spoke about the interaction of IT-specialists from different countries, the features of national and corporate cultures of companies operating in various industries, and the need to critically evaluate their own plans at the start of a large project.

- When did you become interested in the topic of cultural differences and their influence on the development of IT projects?
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Andrei Shklyarov: - In Ukraine, I came across quite interesting integration moments when the company in which I worked bought other companies. They had their own internal cultures that were not immediately integrated into the corporate, and it was not always easy to integrate. But a more systematic interest in this issue appeared when I had to work a lot with India, where everything is completely different at the level of not only corporate, but also national culture.

- From the outside it may seem that national peculiarities in IT should be less noticeable than in other areas. After all, do people who work in this field have a lot in common?

A. Sh: - The assumption is rather wrong - national peculiarities can noticeably influence working processes. There are companies, I think, among them are DataArt, which pay a lot of attention to training: trainings, seminars, meetings. This, of course, forms the cultural context, and communication between offices in different countries is much easier here. It works in different industries, vivid examples, say, Motorola, the tobacco giant Philipp Morris or international audit firms.

If the overall context is not consciously created, national specificity becomes very noticeable. For example, projects that require attention to detail have traditionally been done better in Europe, in India and Pakistan - worse. It is clear that on average a programmer is a friend, comrade and brother. And, perhaps, a Ukrainian programmer or a Russian is different from a programmer-Indian less than programmers from these countries from the tractor drivers, compatriots. But remember this difference still stands.

- What is the difference between programmers from India and, say, Eastern Europe?

A. Sh: “The British colonization of India, of course, greatly influenced this country — people there usually understand very well the expectations of people from England or the States. In Eastern Europe, our specialists concentrate more on technology and look less, for which, in principle, they need the product they are working on, that is, on the business component. Of course, not everywhere, and upon reaching a certain level of signiority, this problem no longer arises. But on average, it is more interesting for programmers to work on technological solutions than to think about how technology will help a customer to make money on the market. And here, engineers from India are often closer to the Western world than Ukrainians or Russians. At the same time, engineers from India are much less focused on the result.

Interestingly, in India, when a person offers some kind of initiative, he tries to state it beautifully. Comes from different sides, explains why it is needed, and in very positive colors and colorful expressions, not at all embarrassed by exaggerations and not being modest. The main thing - to start the process, but we'll see! A year and a half ago, I came across a similar letter written by guys from Slovakia. They just as beautifully and with equally vivid epithets described why something from the proposed cannot be done. And in this sense, India and Eastern Europe are antipodes.

- Is it true that in India “yes” does not always mean “yes”?

A. W: - Truth. When you get into a rickshaw, you are always ready to be carried. But in 95% of cases it turns out that your driver does not know or did not understand exactly where you need. And, in order not to end up landed in the middle of a completely unknown area, you need to strongly ask to repeat the address where you are going. Speaking of the IT industry, such things are mostly found in junior developers: the reluctance to refuse the customer or the fear of appearing incompetent can lead to being told “yes” even if the work cannot be done at the appointed time.

- Cultural characteristics - belonging exclusively to groups of people? Or does it make sense to take a closer look at each employee?

A. Sh: - From my point of view, national peculiarities show up in groups of people of the same culture. If there is one Indian, one Ukrainian and one American in the team, in all likelihood, national peculiarities may somehow manifest themselves, but their influence will be minimal. I actually noticed this effect a long time ago, while serving in the army. I had friends from Central Asia, but communication, let's say, with groups from there cannot be called positive experience.

- Is it necessary to take into account cultural peculiarities when planning the work of distributed teams?

A. Sh: “Planning is an important thing, and, say, evaluations always make sense to look along with various experienced people who are ready to question them. Here, of course, expertise, experience and similar things are far ahead of cultural features, but you still should not forget about them, and in some cases you need to lay the foundation for these moments.

Speaking about India, one of my experienced acquaintances once recommended when working with teams from India to find an authoritative person on the other side, to build good relations with him - then everything will be all right with the rest. By the way, I think that for management from India the correct recipe for working with Eastern Europe looks about the same.

Returning to planning, in reality, at the initial stage of the project, the right person on the other side is unlikely to be found. Therefore, a good recipe for minimizing risks, including cultural ones, is trips and personal meetings. It really helps.

- What exactly from the field of corporate culture should be considered?

A. Sh: - If we build relationships with a client, we must understand who decides on his side. And if we want to conduct business with it, we need to figure out how we, in addition to fulfilling our technological task, can, for example, help the specific people who work with us advance in the service.

This requires an understanding of the internal structure of the company. For example, in flat companies, activity is valued - in this case, a large number of jointly implemented various initiatives can be valuable. In some firms it is only valued to deliver the product on time - then the manager who works with you (and therefore most likely you will) will be fine. There are organizations that are very important to spend a certain budget in a certain period of time - and this must also be taken into account. In all these aspects there is a cultural component that you need to find and try to use.

- Is it possible to understand in advance the internal processes of potential partners? Or does the understanding still come only during the development of a joint project?

A. Sh: - Not always, but some basic information can be obtained in most cases. If the company is large enough, some information about its culture must be on the Internet. You can see the official documents, and, say, open the Glassdoor and read what the staff think about it. Their opinion will not always be fair, but for twenty reviews, some picture can still be folded. In addition, there are some patterns. For example, the company engaged in the construction of aircraft, can never look like a startup selling engine for web sites.

- Is there a big difference between companies working with IT, let's say in medicine and finance?

A. Sh.: - Different industries have their own characteristics. For example, I worked with companies that produce medical devices - they are quite rich, the average project for producing one device takes three to four years, many people work on each one. Therefore, the intensity of the work up to the final stage there is not always high. The financial companies I came across, as a rule, were quite aggressive and mobile - we tried to introduce new technological things, quickly satisfy our client. And although these companies are also not poor, the project cycles and speed of work in them are not at all the same as in medicine. But I repeat that I appreciate my personal experience and cannot say that this is noticeable in all companies in these industries.

- Is enough attention being paid to the issues of intercultural interaction?

A. Sh.: - In my opinion, recently they have sometimes been given even more attention than they should. Understanding culture is good. But consideration of such features should never go to the detriment of other aspects of project management. In terms of the work of a cross-cultural team, knowledge of the characteristics of national and corporate cultures helps to avoid serious risks, but in the total amount of project work, efforts in this direction can hardly be more than 1%. And, of course, if you ask these questions, it is better to get down to business seriously.

- I mean, do not follow the dubious advice?

A. Sh: - And be careful about quoting what you managed to read about another country, if the source of information, for example, “Facebook”. Sometimes it can be seen that people read something, but they read something wrong. For example, some “prepared” people sincerely were surprised that we were pretty safe on the streets, asked strange questions about denunciation during the time of Brezhnev and the impact on modern life, etc.

- What are the engineers from India in Eastern Europe?

A. Sh: - First, they perceived the trip, say, to Ukraine as a privilege. Moreover, they had to wait for a visa for almost two months - it was immediately clear how serious it was. Secondly, they were struck by the insignificant number of people in comparison with India and a large amount of greenery, as well as the complete absence of water problems. Almost all engineers from India would like to live in Eastern Europe - to say that any Ukrainian or Russian developer would be happy to stay in India for more than two weeks is impossible. The main problem for Indians here is the lack of proper food. Of course, they get it, but it requires serious effort. Something has to be taken with them - part of their luggage is traditionally spice, and then they have to run around the market in search of adequate substitutes for what they lack. But another characteristic feature of the Indians - abroad, unlike those from Eastern Europe, they immediately find fellow countrymen who help them to adapt.

By the way, many of our compatriots feel incomprehensible when Indians, who have lived for more than twenty years in the States, are returning to India. However, this is a widespread practice. In addition, (again, talking about my experience), Indians always try to support their country in accessible ways, in particular, for us this intensifies competition - all other things being equal, a manager of Indian origin who sits, say, in an American company, will always choose a contractor from their homeland. To give work to India is perceived as a worthy act, and at a high level, the desire for this is very noticeable. It can be said that Indian executives in overseas business are one of the major engines of the Indian economy. However, in the USA it is not always good at looking at the immigration service, because of this it is more difficult to get an American work visa in India than in Ukraine.

- Is it enough to follow universal rules of politeness during long trips?

A. Sh: - The main thing is not to do something wrong. It is not necessary, for example, at the first meeting, trying to improve relations with the client, to tell about their psychological features (“I am quick-tempered, but I don’t remember evil”) to the manager from the client’s company. "It can be used against you."

And, of course, you need to remember about dresscode, which in different companies understand differently. In any case, you do not need to try to make a breakthrough and show your example to the client that we live in a free world, where everyone dresses as he likes.

- India is probably very different in this sense?

A. Sh: - In India, girls can come to work in a sari, but this is probably the main difference. In general, I have not seen a serious dresscode in most IT companies. Engineers in a higher position, signor, often come in shorts and T-shirts, also because they have already gone to work in the United States or Europe. Those who occupy junior positions try to look as good as possible in front of their managers, so they usually come to offices in shirts and trousers. Well, in a suit there, in principle, especially not like, since in May there and at night +30.

- Do you need theoretical knowledge to better understand another national culture?

A. Sh: - When I come across a new country, it is interesting for me to look at the indices presented on the site of the sociologist Geert Hofstede. Although such statistical assessments of the cultural characteristics of different countries do not tell much about themselves - you need to read further, try to understand the history of the region with which you will have to closely contact. I remember very well how in the Soviet Union they laughed at the results of a survey of Americans who could not tell where Kiev was. But I think if you now ask Ukrainians or Russians about how many states there are in India, or ask them to name at least a few of them, the Indians will also have something to laugh at. And in this sense, the six indicators that Hofstede operates on, for example, attitudes toward power, individualism, masculinity, can serve as information from which to dance. In addition, stubborn statistics are collected on the site of his institute - it is unpleasant for me to see there some things about the culture to which I myself belong, but they look like the truth.

- Can the culture that has developed in the company be better or worse, more or less correct and suitable?

And : - I will give an example of a “wrong” culture. In one company in America, I saw a manager coming to the desk of one of the employees, silently standing nearby for about an hour and leaving. It seemed a bit awkward to the people who worked there, but no one was indignant, after all, their salary depended on that manager. In fact, there is even such a concept of management by walking around - when a manager walks around the office, talks to someone, someone just looks at the monitors. This in itself is not bad - people in a team should see their leader from time to time, and the leader should understand well what is happening. Another thing is that in the case of a particular company, this style has been transformed into something strange. People did not understand why the manager does this, and were afraid of him. By the way, that company was engaged in medical development, and control there, of course, was of great importance - serious shortcomings in the work of employees could eventually just kill a person. Therefore, it was important to announce errors as soon as possible and louder. And here I saw how, because of the fear of dissatisfaction with the manager, people until the last time tried to hide the flaws and secretly fix everything on their own. This was unusual for America and the medical industry. Probably, one can say that in a certain part the corporate management culture here failed.