Spacesuit for landing on Europe and the Moon - what should it be? Interview with Lead Designer Final Frontier Design

FFD Lead Designer Nikolai Moiseev (left) and company president Ted Susern (right) demonstrate the new design of the spacesuit

Hi, Geektimes. Today, again, our guest is Nikolai Moiseev - Final Frontier Design (FFD), lead designer and chief engineer with an office in Brooklyn, New York. The main activity of the company is the creation of space suits and individual elements for them (for example, gloves). Nikolai has been working in this field for more than 20 years, and today he agreed to talk about his current work and about the situation with the development of space suits in other companies.

Last year, Nicholas has already talked about his company , he also analyzed the spacesuit from the Martian , in which the hero Matt Damon traveled around Mars. Today we will learn about how a spacesuit can be used for disembarking planets and satellites, what is the ideal spacesuit and how difficult the process of creating one glove for a “space suit” can be.

Nikolay, hello! Tell me please, what project or projects are you working on now?

Now we are closing the contract for the production of gloves for NASA. This week, a group from NASA is coming to us, and the company will be testing new gloves. To do this, we have certified all of our equipment, having spent a huge number of hours in paper work. The fact is that the test is conducted on a person. Supply of gloves will begin in July, and after that the contract will be closed. We will not know whether the collaboration will continue, but we hope to cooperate with NASA further.
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We also have several small projects, for example, the development of gloves for electricians. Few people can imagine, besides professionals, what the consequences of exposure to an organism of 5,000 volts can be. And the electrician must take these live wires in his hands, work with them. I can say frankly that these gloves are not outwardly beautiful. In general, someone uninformed can say that this work is not too important. But this contract is quite beneficial for us, the company must work and earn. In addition, in the course of this work we apply new ideas in terms of ergonomics. We have new ideas to increase tactility and hand protection.



We are also working on a number of training projects, including fitting our spacesuits (The Space Suit Experience program). Specialized universities in the United States train their students for space flight, teach them how to work in space suits and other tricks. And such educational projects also bring money and fame to the company. For example, in October there was a group of 30 people who measured suits and “flew” into space on simulators. In April - 15 people. But let's talk about this in more detail later.

Test parabola flights are coming soon to create conditions of weightlessness [meaning NASA special C-9 aircraft - approx. ped]. In July, August and October, training and student training is planned. Early next year, flights will be conducted under a contract with NASA with our new spacesuit, also on a parabola, in weightless conditions, only 75 parabolas. Tests will be conducted according to an approved method. One of the important stages for our company is the certification of our spacesuit for spaceflight.
75 parabol is actually 75 flights? Or during one flight is carried out several parabolas?

On the test set aside three days. During one flight day 25 parabolas will be held. During the test, sometimes there are interesting moments. For example, the last time in October, when we conducted tests, some participants in the experiment simply became ill. Thus, the selection is carried out. Some feel delighted with sensations of weightlessness, others feel very bad.
In theory, the selection of astronauts can be carried out at an early stage precisely in such conditions. When you are in a rolling state, then you fly up, then fall down, you can experience either delight, or you will be swayed and become ill, pallor appears.

The next question is about modern perspective spacesuits of a new type. There are actually not so many developments, and most of them are quite old. Astronauts fly only in slightly improved models of space suits. Tell me, are there fundamentally new models of space suits created from scratch?

Yes, traditionally NPP "Star" in Russia, under the auspices of Roscosmos, manufactures space suits for going into outer space. Every 5-10 years the Orlan spacesuit is updated, developers regularly release updated models.

NASA is also working on improving these spacesuits. For example, the new spacesuit was assembled at the end of last year, I mean the model Z2. This is a model with an access hatch on the back. True, we can not say that this spacesuit is so very different from previous ones. Prototypes were created much earlier. For example, in the Soviet Union, such a spacesuit was created in the early 60s. But if NASA implements this project, then it will be the first flight spacesuit for NASA with rear entrance / exit from behind. It will have improved hinges, other elements. In general, it will be heavier than previous models EMU (Extravehicular Mobility Unit). This is the so-called Space Shuttle spacesuit. As a professional, I certainly don’t like the increased weight of the spacesuit, considering that the 21st century is outside. I will also say that this is my personal opinion, and not the opinion of my entire company.

Regarding the most up-to-date super-ideas ... Such news periodically appears in the press that some companies allegedly promise to create a super-innovation spacesuit. Or, for example, a student from Australia wrote to me: “The suits are very expensive. I suppose I can make a spacesuit for $ 150. " But we do not mind. Do who bothers you? Make at least one sleeve, with two plugs, then perform pressure tests. And then conduct an experiment with pressure testing [test for elevated pressure - approx. Ed.] Then you need to experiment with an explosion when the glove or sleeve needs to be inflated to the extent that it explodes. When conducting such tests there should be a stand that can protect the tester. This is required by safety regulations. So, you should have a stand that creates pressure, a source, a compressor, which costs 1000 bucks and accordingly you should find out at what pressure the sleeve will burst.



If the working pressure is, say, 0.4 atmospheres, then pressure testing should be done at 0.6 atmospheres. The sleeve must explode at least 1.5 atmospheres. I call indicative numbers. It is clear that all this costs money - tests, materials, work. Enthusiasts simply do not understand how many intermediate points between the idea and its implementation, if we talk about astronautics. Since I have been in this topic for many years, already 30, I occasionally see such news appear.

Are we working on innovation? Yes, we are working, but we will not announce it ahead of time. For example, making the sleeve of a new spacesuit, we make one layout. I didn't like it ... The second layout is better, but there are still flaws. About the new sleeve, until it is brought to the working version, we will not tell anyone. But this sleeve may well become the ancestor of a new generation of spacesuits. We start small, then we develop further. But before the time nothing in the press does not leak.
I want to note that this work takes time and is not paid. If we want to get a contract for the production of a new spacesuit, we must submit a prototype to NASA or someone else. Only under the idea here money is not given, more precisely - there is little chance of getting such a contract. If you came and said that you have a brilliant idea, then most likely you will not receive money for its development. And if you come and say that you have a working prototype, then in this case the chances will be much higher.

What, in your opinion, should be the perfect spacesuit?

Yes, an interesting question ... Generally speaking, the perfect spacesuit should be as light as possible. Modern models are very heavy and weigh more than 120 kilograms. And this is a spacesuit for one person. If suddenly we fly to the moon, to Mars and put on this spacesuit, go to the surface of the planet, we may fall and not rise, even though there is a reduced gravity on the Moon and Mars. The future planetary spacesuit should be at least twice as light. It is necessary to make a spacesuit with a fundamentally new design and design.

But was there a situation when an astronaut who came to the surface of the moon was lying? He lay down specially. Was he helped to get up or did he get up himself?

He himself, but from the tenth attempt. He took advantage of the fact that there was a small force of gravity on the Moon, but he could not rise normally to his knees, then go down to his haunches and stand up. In the spacesuit of the Apollo expedition this could not be done. But the astronaut found a way out. In the bench press, he sharply pushed off the surface with his hands and rose to his feet in a jump. By the way, the spacesuit of the Apollo expedition weighed 60 kilograms, plus 6 times less than the weight of a man and a spacesuit on the moon. I note that the hinges for the legs in this spacesuit were very bad. To bend the leg at the knee and hip by 90 degrees or more, this is how we can, he could not. But some people can even move their knee to the chin. In the standard spacesuit this could not be done, as much as possible to bend the leg in the thigh by 30 degrees. I note that in the newest spacesuit, developed by our company, you can bend the leg in the thigh, and this is already more than 90 degrees.

Wow progress! And how do you think, how realistic, while retaining the functionality, to reduce the weight of the spacesuit twice? If so, how long will this development take and what difficulties does it have?

First, it is real. Secondly, we need new materials. Thirdly, financing is necessary, because the idea is not cheap. Creating a spacesuit on a new principle is more difficult than improving the old type spacesuit. For example, back in Moscow, when I was working on gloves, they said to me at work: “Please, make a simple glove. What do you do every time glove harder and harder? ". And I answered: “Look at your hand, what a complicated system this is! There are so many different joints and “hinges” ... This is a very complicated thing, and a high-pressure glove must also be close in functionality to our hand. ”

Now we continue to work in the direction of improving gloves. For example, in the glove we made for NASA, there are 6 times more parts than the previous model. This is a fundamentally new quality level.

And what should be a spacesuit to go to Pluto, for example? And to reach the surface of Europe, the satellite of Jupiter? After all, NASA is planning an expedition to this satellite.

In order to start designing a spacesuit on Pluto, on Mars or any other planet, you need to know the conditions of use. So far we know little about Pluto, despite the successes of astronautics. The beginning of the development of the spacesuit and any technically complex system begins with the requirements. What is the temperature, what is the pressure, what is the force of gravity, what is the composition of the atmosphere of the planet - all this needs to be known. While all this is about Pluto, we know approximately, not specified data.

These plans are very distant, therefore it is humanly difficult to discuss the project when the automata have not yet got there. A feature of the spacesuit for Europe, the satellite of Jupiter, is that it must provide anti-radiation protection, since Europe flies in the Jupiter radiation belt. Even the Earth has a radiation belt, and while the problem is solved simply - astronauts on the ISS are flying below the radiation belts. In order to fly to the moon, you need to go through them as quickly as possible, not to linger. And imagine, we need to fly on a small planet, which is located in a powerful radiation belt. Europe is a complex site to visit.

It is much easier to organize a manned mission on Ganymede, where there is a liquid ocean, or on Callisto, where there is also a liquid ocean. Unfortunately, for some reason they don’t talk about it at all, everyone dreams of Europe. But Callisto is far from Jupiter, in a quiet zone, where there are no transcendent levels of radiation.

At the moment, neither the Soviet, nor the Russian, nor the American spacesuits provide sufficient anti-radiation protection for a flight to Europe. It can be said that they practically do not protect against radioactive radiation, especially from heavy particles.

Is it even possible to talk about radiation protection in relation to the spacesuit?

Actually, we have a prototype.

Is it a trade secret or can you tell us a little about it?

First, to make a model of anti-radiation protection is one thing, and to conduct tests is quite another. We conducted tests with one level of radiation, spent about $ 5000 in a certified laboratory in order to obtain test reports. In order to enter the tests at the accelerator, where there are heavy particles with high energies, you need $ 150,000 dollars. For us, this amount is large.

On your company's website there is a section “The Space Suit Experience”, where spacesuits are shown and the price is set at $ 795.00. This suits cost so much?

No, these suits are not for sale. They can be worn, any person can order a "fitting", during which you can put on and try out a spacesuit. This is a unique service in that several hundred million people live in the USA. The fact is that if you have money and you want to measure the spacesuit, then this could not be done anywhere in the USA. True, this possibility exists in Russia. That is, the American had to go to Star City near Moscow, buy expensive tickets, rent a hotel. All this will result in an amount of about $ 5,000 or more, depending on the program. Here you can also try the Falcon spacesuit for the Soyuz. The spacesuit is white, rescue. In the Russian center can be measured and "Orlan". Previously, there was an opportunity to conduct trainings in space suits under water, but now the pool where the exercises were held is closed for reconstruction, maybe it will open this year.

We are still the first and only company that provides everyone with a certain level of physical health to try and try on a spacesuit in the USA, and the cost of this service is very moderate.



This service is quite popular. There was, for example, with us, a civilian pilot, flying to Boeing. He is already over 60, but he dreams of space, although he realized that he would not fly. And there is no health anymore. But he came and was delighted with it. He was able to touch his dream, to the cosmos. To go to the museum and see the spaceship is one thing. And here you put on a spacesuit and, as the head of a ship, you try to land on the moon, on Mars, using a simulator. The pilot, about whom I speak, passed all the tests, sat down in any conditions in our simulator.

There is another category of people. This is the modern kids who are engaged in computer games. Not just gamers, no. We are talking about developers - they develop games and come to us periodically. They are trying to get new sensations in a spacesuit, to understand what a spacesuit is, in order to later create some kind of new game.

Another category is people who want to make a birthday present for someone. The lucky ones are brought here with their eyes closed, and then they are told a surprise. The man opens his eyes, and here - BAM! This spacesuit, you can try on and take pictures.

And in this spacesuit you can go out into space or walk on the moon?

Perhaps in the case of a certain refinement. Generally speaking, spacesuits are divided into two types: in-ship, and extra-ship. Intrakorabelnye, for example, "Falcon", it is light suits. The same "Falcon" weighs ten kilograms. The extra-ship Orlan weighs 120 kilograms. What is the difference? One of the reasons is that the life support system for the Falcon, roughly speaking, belongs to the ship, it is part of the ship. And the spacesuit for extravehicular activity (EVA) has an autonomous support system, it is designed for 9 hours, the limit is for 10 hours. Naturally, no one works there to the limit. Usually 6.5 hours work, no more, because the physiological needs have not been canceled. This type of spacesuit is a spacecraft for one person. The second difference between these two spacesuits is that they have different types of protection. The spacesuit VKD outside screen-vacuum insulation, which protects from extreme temperatures from cold and heat flow. Also, spacesuits VKD have solar filters that protect from bright solar radiation. Without it, the astronauts just go blind.



There is a third type of spacesuits, one can say universal. This is when you take off in the same spacesuit, fly to the moon, descend on its surface, walk on the moon and return to Earth. Like any universal thing, this spacesuit is not very good. The fact is that for working in a ship such a spacesuit is too heavy, plus it has insufficient mobility. And you have to go to the surface of the planet and work. Therefore, this spacesuit has additional hinges that are not needed for the ship's spacesuit. Usually we are talking about bearings with seals, which can be 10 or 20 pieces in a VKD spacesuit. There are only one pair of such bearings in the Falcon type spacesuit.

And the universal spacesuits of which you speak, do they exist? And if so, what is this model?

First of all, this is Leonov’s spacesuit [the Berkut spacesuit, - approx. Ed.]. In it, Leonov went into outer space. Belyaev was waiting for him, fully equipped to hedge if that. In the same spacesuits, the astronauts returned. The second spacesuit of this type is the spacesuit of the Apollo program. There are more ideas about universal spacesuits. So, when NASA was considering an asteroid mission, the project team realized that you need to take two types of spacesuits with you for several months of flight. Take off in some, go to the surface of the asteroid to collect samples - in another, heavy spacesuit for 1-2 hours. And they thought that it was possible to take off in the first and out in the first, just put outerwear on him, as they say, with thermal insulation. Mount a solar light filter on the helmet, put on heat-insulating gloves, special boots, satchel on the back, fasten it with straps. Fasten carbines with falls, so as not to get lost - they are not on a light suit.

It turned out that no, this idea does not work. Having spent a lot of money, the NASA team realized that in a lightweight spacesuit, even an improved one, with the inclusion of additional bearings in the sleeves and the addition of other elements, it is impossible to do this job of collecting asteroid soil samples.

And the last question on the moon. The US Congress urges NASA to go there. Will the space suits in which the Apollo mission astronauts fly will change, and if so, how much? And in general, do I need to change something?

The changes will be very significant, in many ways. The Apollo mission was on the verge of survival. The working pressure in the spacesuits was at the very minimum level, even lower a bit and the astronauts could harm their health. In the new lunar spacesuits working pressure will be significantly higher. There will be normal pressure in the cabin of the lunar landing module of the migratory ship; well, it may be slightly lower, as in the cabins of passenger aircraft. In such conditions, everyone will feel fine. What other changes? Of course, these will be spacesuits with a rear entrance, as Soviet engineers did in the early 60s.



There is another point. The Apollo program suits were with germolneny, which are hard to close and open. The failure or breakdown of one “tooth” will lead to the failure of the entire zipper. All lightning will go out, and the suit will be open. The astronaut will die. NASA then introduced duplication, one over the other. First, the astronaut must close one lightning, then another. But it is very uncomfortable. The result was a thick bag that stakes on a spacesuit with a stake and there was nowhere to place it. But there was no way out, and the lightning had to be made long. This is because the entrance to the spacesuit must be large enough for a person to climb. Because even if you stuck your legs, your shoulders may not fit. The entrance to the spacesuit is one of the critical issues for the development of spacesuits, so in general denominator you need a VCD spacesuit with an entrance hatch at the back.

Nikolay, thank you very much for the interview, for taking the time to tell our readers about the situation in the space program with space suits!