Jacob DeWitte, the Oklo project is about building a nuclear reactor that people need

Co-founder and CEO of Oklo, a startup in nuclear technology, on what will happen next, on departure from what has been adopted and on the construction of a nuclear reactor required by people.



The Macro: Oklo is developing a new type of nuclear reactor — small, portable, waste-free, and with a negative carbon release rate. This is an extremely exciting prospect for a startup, and this is definitely not the type of project “presentation” that you hear every day.
When did you become interested in this area?
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Jacob DeWitte: It was always as I remember. I grew up in Albuquerque; over the weekend, dad and I grabbed donuts and went to the National Museum of Nuclear Physics. My favorite place in the museum was the models of nuclear fuel tablets. It was possible to take such a thing the size of a pencil eraser and hear the message that it contains as much energy as is contained in one ton of coal or in 600 liters of oil. When I was a child, it was extremely fascinating to me.
In the 5th grade of school, I became interested in what nuclear energy is and how it all works. I took a big book and read it carefully. Albuquerque actually receives electricity from a nuclear plant in Arizona, so when our family went to see the Grand Canyon, I convinced my parents to go to this power station.

I was just shocked that I was so close.

Unfortunately, it was Sunday, and everything was closed. So I just spent an hour in the parking lot, looking at the towering buildings around. My father is an engineer, and he could explain something to me about the different parts of the buildings here. However, I am sure that my parents thought something like this: “Okay ... we stayed here more than enough to continue to give pleasure.” I was just shocked that I was so close.
In high school, each of my school essay was somehow related to my favorite topic. I was especially interested in nuclear fission. I wrote letters on the nuclear topic to the editor of the newspaper. Once I wrote to the creators of the Sim City computer simulator that they incorrectly portrayed nuclear power plants.

So when you got to college, I suppose it was clear enough for you to study?

Jacob: Yes, I thought that I would choose physics and engineering to be major subjects. But it ended up that I decided to go to an educational institution, where I studied atomic technology in my last years, and I did it.
There, I began to realize that the state of everything in this area is changing extremely rapidly, developing with new technologies, equipment, computers, etc. Growing up, I always knew that I would work with nuclear technology. In college, I realized that I wanted to act on the front line of nuclear technology.

What kind of activity does this mean? Where did you see yourself?

Jacob: Well, I started practicing at the National Laboratory of the Department of Energy of the United States when I was still a senior. The main part of nuclear development is financed by the government: weapons programs, large systems in areas related to infrastructure, etc.
But being there, I ultimately realized that the research and development in this Laboratory was not the work on the next generation nuclear projects that I was so passionate about. They do not develop under persistent market pressure; they are driven by the government. They move slower than they could be, and are not very susceptible to the new.

I never felt like I was part of those places.

I thought that maybe the situation in some private company would be different. General Electric (GE) is one of the leaders in this field, so after completing my studies, I worked there for a while. But it was clear that big companies are also not very assertive in the market. They show interest, invest some money, but not at all as intensively and aggressively as I would have done. Concerns about new products are significantly inferior in priority to their existing products.

Did it cause you some frustration? All your life you have dreamed of working in the nuclear industry. And you get to the National Laboratory and to GE, which is probably the same for you as a believer - touching the grail. Was it difficult, finally, to admit to himself that it did not work?

Jacob: Oh yes, very much. To a very large extent. I never felt like I was part of those places. They did a lot of good work, and I saw some cool projects that I just enjoyed, but I also knew that I would never fit in all of this.

Was there a moment that struck you alive, and you decided that you need to change course?

Jacob: I would say that the moment of "enlightenment" flashed in 2007. I had a project where I designed a molten salt reactor that consumes waste from the nuclear industry. I received a research award for this. It was, indeed, an impressive technology. It seemed that the government or large corporation was ready to implement it - they had the resources, and it seemed to be extremely profitable in any form.
It was completely obvious to me. Elementary! But in conversations with specialists in those areas, it became clear that they simply would not be engaged in the development of this technology. People in the government have told me that this is more a matter of industry, and people in industry –– that this is a matter of government. For several months I did not want to admit the obvious, rushing back and forth.

We are going to succeed on the path that we are going now

Finally, I somehow started talking to my roommate about this and how disappointed I am. And he said to me: "Jake, you know, since you want to do this, then you need to get a company that you run."


^{Co-founders of Oklo, Jacob DeWitte and Caroline Cochran}

And what was your reaction?

Jacob: I really haven't thought about this path before. But I know that he was right.
Now the idea of ​​a startup did not seem completely alien to me. I have always been attracted to the early history of Apple, as well as Microsoft. They showed me that simply the presence of large companies in some area of ​​the industry does not mean that something new cannot be done. In atomic technology, the goal is to provide technologies that are cheaper, safer, built in a completely different way, capable of working without waste, giving energy to people for thousands of years — this goal is daring but achievable. But in order to achieve our goal, we are going to succeed on the path that we are going now.
Thus, when I went to the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) (in 2008 to get a PhD degree in nuclear engineering), I had already decided for myself that I would go to these goals through entrepreneurship.

Have you considered the option to skip the magistracy altogether and immediately go into the business?

Jacob: I really thought about that a lot. But I understood that the drive in this area is everything that has been accumulated by specialists involved in R & D. It made sense, frankly, to acquire the trust that a degree in a given field of science and technology causes.

Important to keep learning

It was also an opportunity to learn more. The time cycles in this area are quite long, so here, before making any serious decision on a certain project, it is important to continuously study, ask various questions and understand everything completely. If I dropped out of school and aimed only at creating this company, I would not have been able to speed up this process properly, as opposed to what we are doing now. By the time the gain would be small.
I also learned a lot about how to communicate on technical issues with the relevant stakeholders that we have to deal with - be it scientists, support staff, government officials.

And how was the Oklo company, originally called UPower, launched?

Jacob: At the institute in Massachusetts, I met with my future co-founder Caroline Cochran; She was also a specialist in the field of atomic technology, as well as a mechanical engineer. We began to figure out which startup we could run in nuclear power. But we did not want to be only technology developers. We sought to understand what people want, what they need.

We sought to understand what people need

We had a series of conversations with friends and acquaintances from those who developed power plants for remote settlements within such projects as the mining and gas industry. They talked about how difficult it is to provide energy at the points where they work. Diesel generators are a common solution, but this is a big problem: there are often no roads for fuel delivery, the equipment is rather cumbersome, due to severe weather, everything can just freeze and so on.
People usually say: “Well, diesel fuel is the most energy-dense of all known.” However, the energy density of nuclear fuel is 2 million times higher! We asked them: “What if there was a small enough reactor that you could take with you to the workplace?” The answer was always the same: “What do you mean! Who is doing this? We will buy immediately! And as much as you can release! ”

It is like a reaction to something extremely painful.

Jacob: Yes, and it was a reaction that was completely different from the one we received at MIT when we talked about this idea. As graduate students, we received a three-week intensive course, which MIT organized in nuclear power engineering for technical managers, as part of the teaching training. When we offered our idea to them, we were told: “Yes? Interesting. Perhaps we will buy something for the sample. ”

Perhaps, even, we treated with a prejudice to the West Coast

This reaction contrasted sharply with the reaction of those who excitedly asked: “Where can I get it?” We quickly realized that a large power supply company would not be our first product buyer. They do not want to risk, and they already have their products, which give them a steady income. But we had a large group of other people who were very interested in our project.
Therefore, in 2012, we began to actually work in this direction: how to build the reactor that these people need? We didn’t want to fall into the trap of scientific reasoning about how wonderful our reactor would be. This development path would be very expensive and time consuming. This would not be a startup, but a university project.

How did you end up in California? Have you always had a plan to get to Silicon Valley?

Jacob: We didn’t have a solid idea of ​​where we would be. We thought so, based on the feeling that no matter what we do, we are going to have a fairly wide presence from a geographical point of view. We knew that we would build our first reactor, probably far from populated centers for security reasons; they also knew that the representatives of the authorities with whom it was necessary to negotiate and deal were in the District of Columbia, and investors, most likely, in large cities.
Thus, we simply thought that we would move forward wherever we had the right opportunities. Perhaps even we were prejudiced against the West Coast, because we did not know it.
What really led us to California was the Y Combinator.

How did this happen?

Jacob: There was a dinner at MIT in the spring of 2013 after a new documentary on nuclear energy was shown. And I ended up at the table opposite Sam Altman.
This was the first time I met Sam, and I had never heard of Y Combinator before. We talked, and I was impressed with his understanding of atomic technology. At that time there was a growing interest in atomic energy, and I spoke to a large number of people who did not seek to spend time on understanding the nuances: people who had drawn knowledge from Wikipedia and were a kind of "armchair experts." Sam's understanding was much deeper than that.
I told him about our company, and Sam asked: “Have you thought about accommodation in San Francisco? I suppose there are many people there who will understand your topic and support you thoroughly. ”This idea was definitely born then.

We wanted to create a serious company, not a scientific project.

After that, we made inquiries about YC and decided that, if our appeal were accepted there, this could be a very valuable life experience for us. We were still at the stage of defending our dissertations, so we could not apply for the next approach. We announced a year later and were, fortunately, taken in the summer season of 2014.


^{Part of the Oklo team near the company's office in California}

Was it a big change?

Jacob: From the very beginning, we were curious about what contact with YC would be like, because they had not done any energy projects yet. But what happened is phenomenal. In fact, we did not receive any serious benefit from specific technical advice, like some of our colleagues — we, after all, are building a nuclear reactor. But it was extremely useful in terms of the overall concept and how to build a big business.
In addition, susceptibility to what we do is very different in Silicon Valley from that on the East Coast. On the East Coast, we were often met with skepticism, asking, “Is it safe? How can this be? ”It constantly sounds like“ How can I help? ”Investor discussions differed amazingly. People are so interested in the potential and the expectation of growth that they are not obsessed with possible difficulties and time frames. People interested in start-ups understand that there are always obstacles and hindrances, but they should not be conditions that prevent the conclusion of an agreement.
Cambridge is a great city and we love it. But if you are trying to create a company here, then it very often falls into the shadow of scientific institutions. Your company's behavior can quickly become highly scientific and intellectual. But we knew that we wanted to create a serious company, and not a scientific project. I think California is a great place to do this.

Can you advise something to people seeking to create a company based on the exact sciences, or to founders intending to tackle “dangerous” areas?

Jacob: It’s extremely easy to fall into the trap of chasing technology and not building big business and strategy. Do not immediately go to Mars. You need to start with what you can do now: accumulate skill and talk to users.
But you should always remember your main goal. When you promote a company, there are two levels you are targeting: the specific product you are working with and your main goal.

"Do not immediately go to Mars

When dealing with a rather complicated area, such as nuclear reactors, sometimes conversations can slow down on explaining the first part: “We are building a completely new type of nuclear reactor that can be used in places where energy production is now unreliable, expensive and pollutes nature. This is what, as we know, people need, and we can build it now and that is the reason. “But this is only the first step towards changing how we develop nuclear energy fundamentally. Our main goal is to shorten the development cycle in all atomic technology.