Recently, I decided to try myself in the role of Yuri Dudy and interview. True, the money will not be there. Well, almost ... Join the conversation with Alexander Boronin, the founder of the Teleport Group and the head of the VR / AR co-working VRlab. Let's talk about venture, acceleration and synergy. By the way, we have a short version for 12 minutes. Link to it under the cut!
What do you think about VR? Share your opinion in the comments.
Tell us what VRlab is and why VR startups are coming there, what they do there and why you need it.
VRlab is currently the largest coworking for VR, AR, MR projects in Russia. We have a lot of space, there is a testing area, now we are launching a separate studio. And all this was born from the hypothesis that if teams that work in the same direction are joined in the same space, then a synergy effect arises. There is an opportunity to share some ideas, quickly work out hypotheses. That is, this is the space in which the project can be launched and created much faster. We create quite a lot for this ... We create some number of solutions that contribute to this.
That is, the idea has been confirmed?Indeed, it turns out more efficiently?
So it turns out more efficiently, the only thing is that it still requires certain changes. That is, we started with the hypothesis that we have a lot of individual startups, companies that make product decisions. Since May, we have been looking at this hypothesis. Now I realized for myself that basically we still have studio projects. That is, they differ from the grocery ones in that they do not go in a particular direction, but work more for current market demands.
In general, the VR market in Russia is more studio projects, what do you call them, or some platform solutions, grocery?
At the moment it is more studio projects. That is, teams sometimes have a hypothesis about products, but there are large teams that are already experienced. And some of them immediately go to the product. There are large teams that immediately work in the studio format. And just keep doing it.
Small teams may initially be guided by the fact that they go into the product, but then there is a moment that the money ran out, or some customer said that "guys, you have a cool product, but I can do this." And this is very different, and since it is connected just for the teams with the fact that they can earn and do something relatively different, they most often agree to this. And it is vital. Like any startup, no one ever knows why they actually began to do what they started.
How many residents are there at VRlab?
VRlab now has about 20 different residents and another 12 non-permanent residents. We have different tasks.
How much do you grow every year now?
Every year it is very difficult for us to respond.
In your understanding, how many residents will be in a year, in three years?
I think that we will fill at 35-40 total residents, because the teams are different. There are teams of 20 people, there are teams of 2-3 people. There are teams in which ... we mainly employ founders, several programmers, and they have the rest of the team, it is generally remotely distributed throughout Russia or even beyond its borders.
Do you invest in projects?Find investors?How do you help them develop in addition to providing a platform and synergies with other teams?
We help them find investments. Often, teams are not ready to communicate normally with venture capital investment funds. That is, we have regular expert days. We ask, or the Queen, the manager of the portfolio, to communicate with the teams and give them honest feedback on what is happening with them.
In individual projects, we try to immediately contact them with major market players so that some pilots can be launched faster. Sometimes we go differently, that is, we enter the large Russian players, companies, collect feedback from them regarding their tasks, which they see with the new technologies of the solution. And we already find them ...
What, for example, companies?Who do you go to?Who are these big customers?
Now we communicate directly with Severstal, we have identified solutions that may be interesting at various divisions of the holding, from solutions that can be applied by workshop engineers, augmented reality, to virtual reality prototyping options and, let's say, marketing tasks that are also ahead of the team put. That is, it is a diverse solution. Accordingly, we are now at the stage of the fact that, together with the teams, we are selecting pilots for Severstal. Well, we discuss these issues.
How much do we have big business thinking about VR, about augmented reality?
How willing are large customers to use these technologies? All very large companies almost already had some experience in introducing VR technologies. Most often these were some marketing decisions at the first level. That is, the first levels of some innovative stands, solutions, everything. For the market, this is already good, because there is some experience.
Now comes the next step - penetration. That is, this is already an integration into the production process. And now VR is quietly starting to be realized at the level of some value.
That is, for example, the company “Sibur” already lays in the annual tasks a tender for the creation of simulators in virtual reality. Because they have there any substation 200 kilometers from Surgut should be repaired every two years. And teams, repair brigades, who already understand how to repair it, can be completely disbanded in two years. Turning it off for 3-4 days at a cost for the company will cost much more than creating a simulator and training several repair teams, so that it learns how to work with them, for example.
In your opinion, what is the trend now in, if you can call it that, corporate education?These are VR layouts, VR stands on which you can learn, or are these already real-time explanations in augmented reality, what should I do right now?
Not in augmented reality, more, rather, in virtual reality. Because, I believe that the trend is a real simulation, which now in VR can already be done at a high enough level. That is, the guys from Cerevrum, they have Natasha Floksi, who is now engaged in a skilhabom. And they have a very high level of dialogue design.
And indeed, some things that an average employee needs to know by heart can be brought to perfection in this interactive simulation mode, then to a very high level of understanding, getting feedback, and even at the level of HR people, see how a person In principle, it reacts to certain moments, what things it notices, how it communicates. That is, it is quite an interesting level of development. And in principle, the replacement of the time of a real specialist, who also needs to be pumped.
But in principle, what is your current share of those involved in virtual reality, what is the proportion of those involved in augmented reality?
Now there are more companies and teams that are engaged in virtual reality. Augmented reality now also has a question of value itself. ARKit came out, ARCore came out, but basically it is still a very big question to get people to look at the world on a mobile screen or through a tablet on a daily basis so that it gives some significant value.
That is, now there are more projects that are developing in VR. In AR, this is more of a demonstration effect so far. That is, he is now slowly beginning to connect with AI-technologies, IoT technologies. There is a project that is now being integrated into Auchan warehouses in order to ... This is in the format of augmented reality glasses such as Glass Epson ... so that workers can quickly and more quickly accomplish their linear tasks in the warehouse, less so that there will be some loss of solutions logistics was better built.
That is, the large-grained people are now implementing this, because they have a task, first of all, to increase their coefficients for a number of points, to reduce costs. And, in principle, the technology for this and are created. But it's all now in pilots mode. That is, even if we take the same augmented reality, Google has already conducted many implementations, integration into large companies directly on its Google Glass, and proved in a number of areas that it is effective and profitable.
Can you tell some examples of such implementations that Google conducted, for example.
Google conducted examples on logistics companies precisely, implemented sales on repair companies. That is a beautiful example, when the instruction for the engineer before - it was shown a huge number of books, brochures, solutions, and now - Google Glass. That is, access to information has become much easier, and it happens in real time. But at the same time, Google Glass is used simply, as a means to view the text? This is a wearable screen, this is a wearable screen, it is to see the texts.
Do they not interact with the environment?
Not at the moment. Because there are cases with the use of Hololens, when right on real stands, on real, some complicated mechanisms, additional information appears that needs to be done, the instruction “unscrew this, turn here, do it.” You do not need to do the instruction in principle, it appears directly on ... There are guys, our colleagues, who are just far enough in this direction.
I liked their case from Murmansk, when at a real construction site somewhere in Murmansk, at least, I do not know how far from Murmansk one can see, there is only a foundation. And then in Hololens you can see how the specific construction object will be located, where the boom-schemes are loaded, engineering communications. And you can look at the layers as it will be displayed directly on the site. As far as I saw this case, it also allows you to control the construction process itself. That is, you can impose this 3D object on what has already been built, see if it is different ... if there are any deviations, everything is being built exactly as expected. And this is a specific value.
That is, now there are cool technologies in VR, there are cool technologies of augmented reality. And the question is now the interaction of developers and the real market. That is, in order to find exactly this value, it was confirmed and, from the point of view of implementation, it was justified. And this is a very lively process, because now separate groups within corporations are involved. That is, corporations take and implement, create a department of innovation implementation, they interact with real departments, interact with developers. And somewhere here, this work is going on to create concrete solutions. VRLab, as I understand it, monitors, as far as it can, the entire VR market in Russia, looking for interesting teams.
How many people in Russia are currently developing for VR?
I would call in total about 300 teams that are doing something in this direction. If you take quite serious firms, companies, then there are 40-50 companies. Of these, 20, as I understand it, work for you. 20 is not permanent ... Part constantly, part is not constant, but yes, they work, work together with us.
And where, besides Moscow, are there any hubs where VR develops?
Now a small hub in St. Petersburg will be opened for the guys in Gazgolder alone. In principle, in St. Petersburg there are about 5-7 strong teams that make gaming and non-gaming solutions in virtual reality. There are a number of teams in Kazan. There is a fairly large company; 50 people are developing both gaming solutions and solutions for the market. In Yekaterinburg, there is a company XLab, they make cool cool simulators, solutions. In Tomsk, all guys are sitting UniGine, make your own engine and make a VR.
That is, they have an interesting solution in terms of graphics quality. By the way, if we talk about our engines, to what extent such solutions of our developers are successful not only in the Russian market, but also abroad. There are not so many examples. UniGine somehow move normally in the direction of the world market. But they, again ... It all depends on whether the children are able to sell, or are not able to. Naturally. That is, the solution here can be excellent, but if there is no direct entry into the market and a rebuilt sales technique, it all remains very local and is implemented in the same way very locally.
As part of VRLab, are you helping people to enter foreign markets, or are you still focusing on Russian customers?
Starting from November, we will launch a tracking program, because, having passed through a large number of companies and teams, we are striving ... we realized that one of the values ​​we can provide is ... or we bring teams to a grocery solution that can ... product solution that interacts with the market. And it goes to repeat sales.
That is, the hypothesis was confirmed. A system of lead generation or sales has been set up, and some system they can ... they take some kind of product from the studio, separate it and put it into a product that interacts separately with the market. Or this is already a solution, an idea, a technology that can be brought to a level when it is interesting for venture capital firms and venture capital investments. There are a number of criteria. And this, too, must be reached.
That is, to pack correctly, to submit yourself correctly, to work out a hypothesis, and to reach a clear level. Here we work, as we have the parent company Tsekh. The workshop has a whole range of educational courses, including the preparation of trackers. Here we can form a fairly strong team that may not work with the entire market right away, but we will take teams 10 in this direction and we will develop. And tell me which technologies are more often used in B-to-B projects: mobile VR, Oculus, plug-in glasses.
What is now in demand in the market?
From the point of view of demand, it is very difficult to say, because now there are still some moments of implementation. “Sberbank”, for example, has now purchased Samsung Gerviarov and Samsung 7 for a hundred for the guys and Cerevrum, in order to conduct interactive simulations. They made interesting case studies on empathy under 360. But at the same time, everyone who is developing something now for mobile phones is waiting for Oculus Go, because now the purchase price for Herviar + S7, S8 is from 500 to 1000 dollars. Oculus Go will be released - it will be 200 dollars. And it will be much easier. Because for large corporations, the moment of purchasing is the whole buntpot.
And there are examples of the introduction of the opposite points, connected to laptops, to desktops?
The same Sibur is now holding a tender right now, and they already have HTC Vive and a computer with a 1060 video card in their technical assignment. That is, companies already understand this, I don’t know who writes all this to them. Sometimes you come to a large company, you wonder how you know about technology at all. Or sometimes they think they understand. Sometimes they think they understand. Yes, there are some moments ...
Persuade?
Correct, convince.
Often you have to convince the customer that initially they do not quite look at the problem?
Constantly. This happens all the time, because there are always nuances. And most often the dialogue “is possible, we want it, we want it.” And there is complexity. In virtual reality, in principle, you can do everything that they come up with, any Wishlist can be implemented.
There is a question of graphics, some of these moments, they are already applied. But there are effective solutions that can be developed in 3, 2 or a month or six months, but there are solutions that they come up with, they are, let's say, not all technologically comparable with each other. And here we have to convince that it is better to start with something simpler and move progressively, receiving feedback from their employees, from the results of intermediate implementations, that is, in a few steps. Achieving results. As you know, just a week ago we launched Windows Mixed Reality, devices appeared in stores.
Your opinion, will this somehow affect the VR market, will it affect the distribution of this among users, the understanding of customers?
The main question is how it will be distributed. Microsoft has a lot of its internal levers of influence on foreign markets. That is, basic Windows is in almost all companies. Accordingly, business communications are already established, and this is certainly a huge plus. Plus there is certification, because for a number of companies this is a stumbling block regarding implementation. And, again, the cost.
That is, it is easier, it is more convenient. I think that the developer should be interested, because here there may arise, again, something like a synergy regarding what they are creating something useful. And it is jointly implemented immediately. That is, it is more massive, because there is already some well-established product for the implementation and implementation.
According to your feelings, what part of the developers at least knows that the beta platform has appeared?
Everyone knows, everyone who does something relatively consciously in VR. Now there is not such a huge avalanche of news, as if we, say, talked to you about mobile games. That is, can you imagine how many mobile games there flies every day on the page ... tens of thousands. Now there are already some large-large number of projects that are coming out, but I think that this, in the first place, will be applied in the B-to-B segment.
B-to-B cases everything is fine, beautifully designed, integrated. And we, in principle, know who does what. That is, from the point of view of transferring relatively ready-made solutions, I don’t see big problems here. , , . , .