Hi, Habr. How I love to go shopping (no). It is very fun to get around a huge shopping center, spend a couple of hours searching, and in the end not find a normal shirt. Damn, I just need a normal shirt of my size, do not need flowers! Well, about the shoes generally keep quiet. I really hope that the system that helps to find, customize and order clothes and shoes will soon see the light in Russia. More in the video (and under the cut text version).
Dmitry Zavalishin is a Russian programmer, author of the concept of OS Phantom, organizer and member of the OS Day conference program committee, founder of the DZ Systems group of companies. In 1990–2000 he took an active part in the creation of the Russian segments of the Internet (Relcom) and Fidonet, in particular, ensured the transparent interaction of these networks. In 2000-2004, he was responsible for the design, development and development of the Yandex company portal, created the Yandex.Guru service (hereinafter Yandex.Market). You can read more on the Wiki .
Andrew Golub is the founder of one of the most innovative companies in the retail industry, ELSE Corp., which provides a revolutionary tool for brands and designers, allowing them to sell their goods, pre-customized, to a virtual user. In his career, Andrew was a professor, consultant and mentor, has more than 15 years of experience in research and development.
Interview
Today, as usual, we will talk about digital transformation, about businesses that bring technology into our lives in such a way that traditional, familiar things come out of the offline, come to the form in which they will probably exist in the future.And today it concerns things that we, in general, did not expect, that this would happen so quickly.Today we will talk about the sale of shoes.
Hello! Very nice, Andrew. As for a company with Russian roots, rather, with Russians rather than with Russians. I myself Belarusian Kazakh or Kazakh Belarusian, my wife is Russian. Also in the company in Milan we have a lot of guys from Russia, but, nevertheless, this is an Italian company, yes.
And we are committed to trying to understand and help others to achieve digital transformation in such a wonderful sector as fashion. That is, boots shoes, we come to the shoes. And especially for sale. Sales are actually in digital transformation - this is the last thing. Sales is when everything has already been transformed, and it is already clear what to do with it. And then we sell.
What we do is much higher than sales. This is exactly the process, the logic and even, so to speak, the business model for fashion, for fashion business. Especially if we talk about high-quality fashion. We are from Milan, respectively, we are interested in brands.
You have to be quality.
Yes. We want ... Yes, we work with them, they work with us. They are interested in this topic. A theme that is based on a problem that happened right now. Further, in the course we will consider.
Still, if you immediately approach the problem ... If I understand correctly, what you are doing, your task is to do so that a person can buy clothes, shoes remotely, without having direct contact with the seller, without taking it in hand, not feeling and not trying on.Where is it more?In the field of fitting or in the field of choice?In which?Do you solve this more specific problem?
I understand that you provoke me with such a question. In fact, what you describe is online trading. When a person ... He has no contact with the product or the seller - nothing, it's online. It has existed for 20 years, it has been developing very well for 15 years, and it has been remarkably developing in recent years. This is a sales channel. That is, it does not transform anything. It gives acceleration, gives an additional channel, additional logic, accelerates, let's say, the sales system. But this is just sales.
We are talking about digital transformation. That is, when the product itself becomes virtual. So we say, we call this business, this process, which our company and partners are developing, “virtualization of the retail process”. That is, this is the product itself - this is clothes, this jacket, imagine - this is a shoe, it does not exist at all. That is, it cannot be bought, it can be ordered, so that someone once made it.
That is, transformation, the difference of transformation from digital sales. They digitized it there, they made beautiful photos, or even there are wonderful startups that take a handbag, they took it in 3D, it’s all so 3D, beautiful, beautiful. Put on the site, you can buy it. It transforms nothing - that is, a handbag, it is. She was photographed - so she was photographed, in 3D, anything.
And you say that you allow together to do custom things in the field of fashion, which are made specifically for the buyer, and ...
Or specifically, or may not be specific, but the point is that the word “transformation” is a business as such, a transformation of the process itself. That is, here's the process - virtual retail, as we called. What is it - this is the chain in which the product, here is the jacket, yes. It is born when designers create it 3D, like a 3D model. Here they create it, and how ...
Many companies are already using 3D for product design. But they mostly do it in 3D, after that they make a prototype and forget about the fact that it existed virtually. Then it is sent to the production, fill the warehouses, and the sale went. We say: why not use that product, virtually designed, and bring it straight to the client. That is, here is a collection of shoes in which there are 5 basic models and a lot of modifications, but retail represents this - there are 150 different articles. That is, each in its own color, each of the materials is different. Here there is a mountain of separate shoes, which are separately produced for each store, warehouses are filled, online and so on. This is the process of standard retail.
And we say: if instead of producing all these options at once, and planning on a bunch of shops, throwing it all over the whole world, I don’t really know who will buy, who will not buy. Really do not know. And we have already come to the conclusion that the chain does not work, it is impossible to know who will buy what, who will not buy what.
We say that if instead of working on a virtual copy and continue to look, what technologies, what approaches, how to interact with the client so that in the end the person (see what technologies, how it all works) decided - this is my product, my handbag, here are my shoes, he tried them on virtually, felt them, touched them. These are separate nuances, we will look further. And he says: I want him. And when he wants this particular product, he can be either a standard specification (the specification has been developed, it is there, they are simply not in stock, they need to be made), or he says: I want this, but a little bit with ...
With pearl buttons.
Buttons, yes. But once the buttons are theoretically there, we just do not sew them for the standard one, but nevertheless we will sew it for you. And then it turns out some kind of personalization, but in any case, even without the buttons of this product was not in any case. Therefore, the order will go to the factory, or to the system, or anywhere. And then this is a complete transformation, this ...
They say you basically made McDonalds for shoes, right? Because McDonalds sells generic products, but bakes them to order. You must first order, he will bake you. And it can, in principle, modify. This is a very similar process.
Well, the process of customization, strictly speaking, there is such a concept - mass customization. If we assume that ... I especially do not want to intermeddle in McDonalds, I know who works there, and not only in McDonalds. That is, if something is possible from ready-made components, standard ...
To collect?
On the go, already collecting - this is mass customization in its pure form. But when production is already directly close to the consumer, then there is already a shop — it is the factory ...
It takes place quite locally, yes.
Yes, there is another model, which is still ... In fashion, more than that, rather the model works. Still, factories are centralized, not as they are now in China or anywhere, huge factories, because they have a model to produce by the millions. And these are, of course, controlled factories, closer to the design departments. Therefore, those factories that can flexibly produce a product are even difficult (respectively, the cost is slightly increased), but, nevertheless, these are still factory conditions, yes. This is industry customization. Otherwise, it is customization at the store level. That is an example ...
That is, are you talking about the one that is at industry level?
Both. We say both.
Both.
I just explain that there are two approaches. For example, companies like Nike, Adidas white sneakers are brought to the store. White of all sizes. And there they are already deciding what colors to put on them, translations, digital print and anything else to wear. This is also a great customization. But this is on the last mile, on the last mile.
And we ... you can support them in this place too ...
Of course.
... providing exactly the ordering process.
Of course, yes. Because the technology, if there is 3D, if there is a client, if there is a connection, then we go in virtual reality. Everything else helps to convince the client to help him choose a specific product specification. But, nevertheless, the point is, such a McDonald approach or Nike, that if ... In any case, the warehouse is packed with white sneakers, which you then need to paint in the store, this is a great optimization. But still at the level of such a simple product. Here is McDonald's. Again, sneakers are fine. If we are still talking about a product that ... especially fashion is high.
Complicated?
Yes, and even more so if we are talking about such a small, but important, very important nuance for fashion production - this is the size adjustment. Here, too, there are wonderful technologies that allow a person to find the standard size that is closest to him. We say: but you can not search, you can actually do this size.
Optimal.
Yes.
Interestingly, in Russia there is a company, probably, no longer a startup.It exists for a long time.Shirt to order.And they take their measurements, but I must say that even they, although they require very detailed measurements of measurements, there are many measurements ...
Details do not need.
Even so, they still offer to make a test shirt in order to understand whether you hit or not.
Of course.
Is this a similar situation?
This is a similar situation, but the question is still: shirts are, as it were, also not an industry. This company is some kind of grocery company that carries out such an approach. She can use technology, can not use. And how to say ... This is more of an atelier, yes.
You can be a tool for her too.
Of course. That is a tool of technology.
It is a tool to look at yourself in this shirt, do I understand correctly, what are you selling?Are you selling the opportunity for a person to estimate a 3D model live?
Including. Including, but this is again a piece. This is still not a transformation. It is a kind of technology that we have, but not only us. And it does not relate directly to transformation. In any case, the shirt that is already there, just digitized, it can be shown on the person who scanned. And there will be a display technology there. Or called a virtual fitting. However, it is like a piece of mosaic and transformation. But the meaning of transformation ... But imagine a brand that has factories in France, in Italy, in the UK, which has millions of sales, thousands of its stores. This is not atelier.
What is changing?
Volume, scale is changing. That is this ...
From a technology point of view, is it all the same a process of fitting and selecting, and sending a warrant somewhere in the back office?
Yes, in a centralized system. And accordingly, brands have standard collections. That is, customization is when a standard product is taken from the point of view of economic benefits, and the client is allowed to customize.
Details.
The client thinks that all this is very cool, everything is done for him. In fact, this is what we can do already. That is, there are all sorts of nuances. Therefore, in a big business, a business of a brand that has millions of sales, in order to introduce such technologies to it, it has, in any case, some special collections that are specially thought out. This is this centralized warehouse, these are materials, this is the whole chain.
That is, if I hear you correctly, you are involved not only in the place where you allow to try on, but you work with the vendor itself so that it ensures the manufacturability of this process.
This is the second transformation. Yes, we have both: we consider such a block, which is inserted, let's say, into the center of IT systems, which connects the product design. That is, the product is created in 3D with its retail specification, that is, this product goes to retail. In what form there is a fitting, without fitting, visualization, 3D, virtual reality are different technologies. Next comes the order from the customer. This order is custom, it occurs by, say, imposing a standard specification on a non-standard request. This unique request is generated, both towards size optimization and towards stylistic optimization. That is, I have a pocket here above, below - everything is there. And here it goes to the factory. That is, in fact, it turns out, the product will be born only when the client has already paid for it.
Paid.
And it will be created exactly the way it is needed. And, it turns out, this system removes completely, from a business point of view, risks (since there are non-sales, returns, whatever). This is actually a stable model. It is sustainable. This means that there is no overproduction. Because in any case, even if we are talking about customization, fitting, but already in the store, then this is overproduction.
That is, we can actually go to such a magical place.You remove one of the main problems of capitalism as a system.
Fashion We are not talking about capitalism, we are talking about fashion. Yes, the fashion system has a problem.
But in general any capitalist production has it.
Of course. Of course.
Overproduction is a standard one such main problem of this model.
On which China rose, and other countries - that it is beneficial to all. If we are talking about fashion, I prefer to talk about my business, about what I know well. That is, I am an expert, let's say, in the fashion business and strategies of these, I have been doing this for a long time. Professor in business school. So this is a problem, the fashion system has a problem. She was out of sync due to this. That is, there is a production, which here is everything that cooks, cooks, produces, produces, produces, simplifies, replaces materials with synthetics, because it needs volumes. But then there are sales, which we are talking about. After all, if you use cool technology, you can always help everyone find all these discounts and so on. That is the whole network of optimization for sales.
In the end, everything that has been produced can theoretically be somehow sold, if at least with a discount there to the maximum. But from the point of view of fashion, this is all that is needed. Why buy all this? That's why all this stuff falls on us, and ultimately we buy it? Even poor quality, which does not even fit, because we just downloaded all of this, and in the end and discounts, and super discounts, and fits. In general, these are the arguments. This is the problem of fashion.
You really also have this place.In part, you stop the risks, in part, you push them forward, because one way or another, a virtually designed model may still not work.That is, there is some process of returns and customer dissatisfaction.And it should be analyzed in some way.
Of course. First of all, this is a special case when something is not suitable for a specific customer, this is a case of customer care. The client came up - did not come up, or just like it - do not like it.
That is, you consider it as a private one.
He is private.
There is no business process in which they are analyzed and some global conclusions are made?
Of course. All such systems are built on artificial intelligence, it is analyzed by definition. I mean, if everything fits you perfectly. In the same atelier, you could order it, try it on all 15 times manually. After a day: "I do not like it anymore."
It's clear.This is a natural situation.
Actually the same reason. Here are the same shoes. A man made shoes to order in size. In terms of production, it is in size. He puts on, says: I don’t like it, I’m too tight here. They say to him: be crushed. He says no I don't want to. So what to do with it?
These are emotions.
This is the basis of business.
On the other hand, you should work with them too, that is, you should ...
Not we, thank God. Brands
And why?
We are a technology company.
Yes, but you, by and large, look, because it was you who gave her an order for the production of a shoe that shakes.
He does not press.
May be.
This is how it works. Just a person is not ready to accept it.
If it turns out statistically that even if you produce correctly, then 5% have a feeling that they are pressing, then something needs to be done with this.
With this to do. This is the most interesting part. Tell you next. Artificial intelligence for this and need. We study the individual characteristics of a person, both stylistically and what suits him or not. I wanted to leave this for later. Naturally, we are working in this. But let's finish with the business model.
“Then” has already come.Let's talk about it.
Otherwise, let's forget the main theme of transformation. I'm sorry, another half a second.
Yeah.
Still, it is much easier and more interesting for the industry as a whole to solve individual risks, specific at the human level, one-on-one, than the global risk of overproduction, in which we simply tried to optimize this logistics, these stores there.
In general, I am waiting for the special store for boys to appear, which has 1 pair, one type of shoes - black.
We are preparing such shops. That's about them, actually, I can tell you the following if we approach this topic. What who chooses, on the basis of what, and how it all seems.