“Information sciences can be taught only by young people” - Interview with A.A. Shalyto, a professor at ITMO University
Hello! The show "Without Slides" is back from a long vacation. In fact, all spring and summer I was overwhelmed with different work, so there was no time to really get to the studio, nor to disassemble the accumulated material. So that you understand the depth of the problem - the release with my today's hero was shot six months ago, but his hands only reached him now. In the new season I will try to make issues more often, creative. But to hell with the lyrics, it's time to get down to business.
Anatoly Abramovich Shalyto - a legendary personality. Professor, Doctor of Technical Sciences, Head of the ITMO University Programming Technology Department, working mainly at the famous computer technology department, which teaches and graduates all famous Olympiad winners at the ACM ICPC Programming Olympiad, winner of the Russian Government Prize for Education. Anatoly Abramovich is also famous for his irreconcilable position on the interaction of universities with business and his contribution to automatic programming and my favorite notes about motivation .
')
They wanted to talk for 50-60 minutes, but it turned out a half hour. So I decided to split this interview into two parts. Your attention is the first part in which we talked:
Enjoy watching.
For those who prefer to read rather than listen - decoding as always under the cut.
- Let's start with the Russian government education award. What kind of prize is this, and do I understand correctly that this award was received not only by you, but also by many of your students?
- So, the situation is the following - there are various government awards: there are science and technology awards, there are some other cultural awards, and there is a Russian government education award. It is awarded once a year, signed, approved by the Presidency of the Government, the competition is the wildest there. When we filed in 2008, there were 179 candidates for 15 awards. And the prize is interesting because there is a mixture of information technology and agriculture, the violin. And when Parfenov and I (Vladimir Glebovich Parfenov - Dean of the Faculty of Information Technology and Programming at ITMO University - auth.) Wrote these papers, we copied them 20 times. Vasiliev (Vladimir Nikolaevich Vasiliev - Rector of ITMO University - Auth. Comment) said that it is necessary to write them in such a way that if there is a rector of an agricultural institute, culture and, for example, physical education (will be experts) in the commission, they should understand that we have contributed to education. And this is how we rewrote this text 20 times.
- That is, it was such a special exercise.
- Specially written so that it was available to any expert in the field of education, what is our contribution. And in short, the main thing is that this award included not only me, Parfenov and Vasiliev, but also two young guys: Georgy Korneyev (Georgy Korneyev - associate professor of the ITMO Department of Computer Technologies, winner of the ACM ICPC gold medal in 2001), who was 27 years old, and Matvey Kazakov, who was 29 years old. I do not think that there is at least one enterprise in the world that shares its premiums with young people, especially in Russia. I still partially, to this day, work at NPO Aurora, in the shipbuilding industry. And when I received this award, ours received an award on science and technology. The general director of our office [Vitold Vitalyevich] Voytetsky then said: “What is more difficult - to become a doctor, a candidate or a prize? Of course, it is more difficult to get a prize, because doctors and candidates are an uncountable thing, and here the government allocates so many places every year, and therefore no one here will share with you. ”
And we shared. And in short, today we have Andrei Stankevich (associate professor of computer technology at ITMO University, winner of the ACM ICPC gold medal in 2001, coach of the ITMO programming team, winner of the ACM ICPC Senior Coach Award) at 22 years old won the President's Award education in the composition already for the things olympiad with Moscow University, Saratov and others. There he was in the award (he, I think, was 26 years old) and Roma Elizarov , and this year he received Maxim Buzdalov, who is also 29 years old. That is, we already have five laureates who are under 30 years old. Others don’t share their prizes with the guys.
When we received this award, there were 15 teams, and there we were like boys, because there, for example, the team was from Bauman University from 72 to 89 years old, these are mostly frames. Now getting it is very difficult. First, it was possible to receive the award again, secondly, it was possible to receive 10 people, and now once, five people in the award. And so it turns out that Maxim Buzdalov was in the top five and became the laureate of this prize at the age of 29. I think we are cool. I don’t think anyone else shares the awards with their students.
- On you here is an interesting T-shirt. "IT`s MOre than a UNIVERSITY" is written. I saw the same on ITMO buses that are parked in the university’s backyard. What is this slogan so interesting and can you say something at all, what about the name of the university?
- I can tell. Of course, I am not a bus, although one person once told me that I looked like a bulldozer, so a bulldozer could also be a slogan. It is written: “ITMO is more than a university”, this is due to the fact that we are entering the program 5-100 . It is Putin who said that by 2020, five Russian universities should be in the top 100 universities in the world. I didn’t say that the whole university was or the subject matter, we already got into the subject matter! The destiny of universities in this program is decided by an international commission, which includes not only ours, - Gref and others, - but also foreigners - rectors of the University of Hong Kong, and Arizona, etc.
And we made the main remark that the name is no good - very long - “St. Petersburg State Tu-that …… information technologies, mechanics and optics ...” - there are no such names. It happens Harvard, there is Cornell, but here something is so wild. And the rector put on the Academic Council the question of what to offer in Russian and in English another name. The person to whom it was entrusted, put 12 names on the screen, and they all began with “St. Petersburg”, which took one hundred and only places. And even my beloved dean, my friend, Parfenov, also said: "St. Petersburg." After that it was clear that we wouldn’t fit anywhere with this name.
I got up and said that I know how to do it, it is very simple. In the programming championships, there is very little space on information boards, and therefore it is written either ITMO or ITMO University. Let's call our university “ITMO University”, and without decoding: “ITMO” as a proper name. Now the universities are called Peter the Great, Alexander of some kind - it is not clear to me who this is intended for. I suggested: "Let's vote." The rector said: "We will discuss the month." In general, they discussed the month and [chose my version]. Only I don't know English well, I said “University ITMO”, in English I need “ITMO University”.
The official name (for tax services, etc.) remains that long, as it should be. This year, when we won the Team Undergraduate Programming World Championships for the seventh time, the next move took place in public opinion: we approached Harvard, Cornell and others. On the sidelines of the championship, Americans say: “They are coming from ITEmOu.” There is already no “university” in the title, and the championship organizers have become accustomed to this. We are approaching in name to what is supposed to be - ITMO, just ITMO, like Harvard, like Cornell, like someone else. We went through different stages of changing the name. I don’t wear this t-shirt specifically for your show, I wore black shirts, Zuckerberg wears gray, and I wear black because I have such a build. I ordered 15 t-shirts for myself, and now I constantly walk, combining business with pleasure. On the one hand, I am proud of the place where I work, and on the other - black and beautiful.
- In colors, as you can see, we converge.
- Fully converge.
- Look, there is ITMO University, which is a former institute of LITMO, and there is a story with a separate department, with individuals, which is now rattling the whole world. Students in your department win at ACM ICPC and other Olympiads related to programming, and graduates, many of whom we know, occupy leading positions. We, for example, had Roma Elizarov, who was the champion of Russia.
- And one of the main things now is to host the Olympics. And the main for the semi-finals. He is already at 3-4 place in the world for the organization of these competitions.
- Yes, he was here with us, he told me how they were broadcasting ... We also had Maxim Shafirov , who from the St. Petersburg State University has something to do with all this, he was engaged in a team there.
- In 2001 and 2000, they became world champions for the first time, and there were Durov and Lopatin, and the third person changed.
- For ITMO University itself, it is not a secret, the activity of the department and its success at the Olympiads is such a good advertising billboard. Such a thing that can be raised and said that here we are fucking taught and so on. But on the other hand, we all understand that this is some elite, and ITMO University is a big university, thousands of people study and work there, how does this coexist inside the university? When there is a department or direction of people who are very closely involved in something and make advertising, apparently, the whole university is a big organization. Probably somehow not very easy to coexist with them?
- In fact, the success of this department and in general everything that happens with the institute has one main reason - the rector of our university Vasiliev, who has been the head of this department for 20 years now. And Parfenov, who is the dean and deputy. head of the department, but in fact leads this work. That is, at first they glorified themselves, roughly speaking. They made this extraordinary place, it overflowed to the University.
I can not say that people are delighted with the fact that we won the World Programming Championship for the seventh time. However, many say: "Sick." From this sick about the same as in the "White Sun of the Desert": "Did you bring some bread? Already I can not have this black caviar with spoons. ” And they told me inside the university and said outside: “Well, how much can you? Well, sick. Some see it as “really true?”, While others speak angrily about it. And they say: "This is a sport." Well, yes, this is such a unique sport that it is even difficult to come up with, and the results are generally some staggering. Recently, I looked at which of the team sports coaches achieved more success than our Andrei Stankevich.
- Well, maybe, Viner? (Irina Viner-Usmanova - coach of the Russian national rhythmic gymnastics team - author's note)
- Now I’ll say this too. I think that in the team sport in the USSR and Russia, Tarasov, the hockey coach, achieved the most success. They were world champions nine times in a row - from 1963 to 1971. And I told Andrei that he needed two more times to catch up with Tarasov. But then one boy, Maksim Buzdalov, great to me, said: “And what is there for Tarasov for the problem? He had no restriction to participate in the World Cup final twice. ” And here there is a limitation that in the final no more than two times. Tarasov took Ragulin and, in my opinion, he played with him eight times. Therefore, if they took Gena Korotkevich now, then the achievement of Tarasov would have fallen long ago.
Now about Wiener. When we became champions for the fifth or sixth time, one person, in my opinion, Ruslan Bogatyrev, who in “PC World” led a serious heading about programming at one time, wrote that in Russia there are only three coaches who have impeccable victories - This is Wiener in rhythmic gymnastics, Pokrovskaya in synchronized swimming and Stankevich in sports programming. Well, here Lopatin is close (Andrey Lopatin - coach of the St. Petersburg State University team in sports programming - author's note) from St. Petersburg State University. Wiener and Pokrovskaya were given the title of Heroes of Labor of Russia, and therefore Stankevich must also be moved there.
But the trick is that sports programming is not a sport. I have said this many times, called for it, we discussed it, but the guys don’t want, they don’t understand why. There are, for example, graduate student Niyaz Nigmatullin and student Gene Korotkevich. And if they were at the same time honored masters of sports, and Stankevich would be an honored coach of the Russian Federation, then this is a pension, and honor. They are much smaller than graduate students and associate professors. But they do not want any, although now was a chance to make a federation.
- Federation on sports programming?
- Sports Programming Federation. Especially since there are world championships, all-Russian ...
- They are still saying that there will be a cyber sports federation.
- She is already there. And there is a go go federation. Kuznetsov, a professor from Petrozavodsk, ruined all this raspberries for me. He said that they punched this federation for 8 years and did not receive a penny. Because they entered the department of the sports committee for intellectual games, and there are chess and checkers, and everything is seized a hundred years ahead.
And representatives of foreign universities say that rectors do not like sports at all. They give money for programming programming contests: trips, trainings ... And they won't give money for “sports programming” at all. That was the end of it. But in order to organize a Federation, the first thing is to recognize this as a sport. And now I made a last attempt and, as Pontius Pilate said, I washed my hands.
I am last talking about it here. Because when our champions were at the reception of Medvedev, I asked the guys to tell the Prime Minister that he tell Mutko to do sports programming as a sport. If Medvedev accepts you or Putin, then any of them would have said Mutko, and he would have made sports programming a sport in one blow. Then there would be a complicated procedure for it to become a federation: it is necessary that there be representative offices in fifty regions, and some people already agree ... In general, this could be done.
We have Vitalik Aksenov, who at the age of 15 graduated from school 239 (with a gold medal in the famous Physics and Mathematics School in St. Petersburg - auth.). And he said that when he returned from graduate school from France, I would like to do this. In general, it did not work out: the boy, to whom I proposed to tell Medvedev about the federation, said that he did not understand why this was necessary. Like, and so all my surroundings know that this is cool. I told him: “You are going to be a professional programmer, in 45 years you will go blind. And here it is an honor and a pension if you will be in Russia. ”In general, this is different from any other people.
And it did not work out to say. And Roma Elizarov wanted to say, but he had Kotlin. The next time there will be a meeting with Putin or Medvedev - it is not clear, we must again win the world championship. Therefore, for the time being, the matter has risen.
Now about the other. I once invented one trick, and we accepted seven great people as honorary Doctors of ITMO, starting with Wirth and ending with Hopcroft - they are all honorary Doctors of ITMO. The last was Kalman, who invented the famous filter .
Returning to the fact that Stankevich was not served on Hero of Labor. What a hero, if there are no orders and medals of the previous ones? Wiener had all this - they are given orders, medals, cars of merit at the Olympics. Olympiad programming is steeper than this, but they give nothing. Unless, sometimes there are champions with state leaders, this is also not bad.
But then the rector suggested, and the academic council accepted, and we elected Stankevich, at the age of 33, as honorary doctor of ITMO. He is still uncomfortable to this day, he still has not been given a mantle and a cap. He said that he was uncomfortable - they are great there, Wirth is there, Hopcroft, Kahn is there, Kalman is there, there is Straustrup, and what kind of supposedly am I among them? But it does not matter, he is an honorary doctor ITMO. Who and in what university at the age of 33 became an honorary doctor of a university that is now known all over the world?
Why do we do all this well? Because our rector is not a metallurgist or a lawyer, but the head of this department. This is his personal interest, this is his personal glory, this is his personal success. In 1991, they and Parfenov invented this department and invented it in a very original way, contrary to everyone, including the Leningrad University and the whole environment of the university. Because they decided to prepare in a technical university, one might say defense, which was engaged in optics, gifted children in the field of physics, mathematics, and especially programming.
And they began to recruit schools, to go: 239 there, others. Began to persuade to come here. And the programs were very interesting. Physics and mathematics were read not by people from our department, but from St. Petersburg State University. And by the way, this year we have a mathematician who reads Kokhas, whose last name is in school 239 on the board of honor, that he is the winner of international competitions. And now Stankevich told me that, apparently, we are teaching well, since the son of Kokhas came to us. Another person working at the “big university” (as St. Petersburg State University is called in St. Petersburg - REM. Aut.) Said, they say, you seem to be doing better than math. I say: “Why?” - “Because you have more olympiads”. Of course, they have good guys, but olympiadniki - they are brighter.
- Look, in my class, in St. Petersburg State University mathematics, I got 16 people, and ITMO received four people at the ITMO department (in fact, two of them - author's note). Now, probably, the situation has changed.
- I don’t know how much St. Petersburg State University is doing, but I know that we have a great success this year. In general, an incredible success - we received 7 people from the “first” class 239 (in FML, 239 classes are traditionally numbered not with letters, but with numbers; “1” is a class recruited from the famous center, 239 and, accordingly, , the strongest) and 45 people in general in LITMO arrived from release 239. That is a lot. I was told by people from LETI that if, historically, suppose parents sent their children to LETI to study who works there, now even they send their children to ITMO.
We have now achieved some kind of awesome result. There are three types of olympiadics - four people in the Russian national team, there are winners of the “All-Russian” competition (All-Russian Olympiad - author's note) and winners, there are winners of the Olympiads approved by the rectors' union. This year, for 120 budgetary places, 178 people submitted documents (and we are obliged to accept them!). There was the 179th, but he escaped from this horror ...
- How is it even possible? You have the same budget places and a half times less.
- No one is interested. We must accept everyone. In HSE (Higher School of Economics - author's note) the same picture is about. But in the HSE for any specialty, they believe, there should be at least 25% of non-elapsed people. They have even more olympiadnikov.
In short, we have now admitted only 178 olympiadians to our department, 11 of them are winners and prize-winners of Vseros ... A girl, Alexandra Drozdova, entered, who received a silver medal at the international olympiad ... who was the first scientist on Google. He left the 4th year for graduate school, and in Google he became the first scientist. So this girl, his niece, came to us after many years - now. Plus, we had to take three with special health, we accepted 10 people by the Intergovernmental Agreement with Belarus. And they took one girl with 309 points on the exam from 300, allowed to add to each applicant for some success up to 10 points.
And we did not take 13 people with 300 points and above! All this led to the minister saying that the rules for admission will be changed next year. Well, in general, it is right somewhere, because not taking people with 300 points is something abnormal. But we could not accept them: in spite of the fact that we had 120 places, we already took 60 people beyond that.
- How will you live with this? Your school year is starting ...
- That tomorrow begins the school year. When we started, we were two groups, 50 people started, 30 people finished. Now, too, to study wildly difficult. This year 21 people graduated from the magistracy. I asked Korneev how many six years ago there were 68 people. We accepted 32 people for the magistracy, and not only from those 68, but we still got 3-5, I don’t know how much ..., but we graduated 21, that is, 30%. I think that not more than 50 will graduate from these 200. We don’t even deduct them, they somehow disappear themselves - they get 5-10 tails and somehow ... It is very difficult to learn, and not only from us. I read about MIPT - there is some kind of death there.
This year we will have about 10 groups.
- Where else do olympiads go? They probably go to the same MIPT, MSU, St. Petersburg State University?
- No, now the privileged place has appeared - Tower.
- Moscow Tower?
- Moscow Tower. There are olympiadists in general ... ITMO olympiadists 350 approximately came to LETI 16, and HSE received 700 with something in all subjects.
- They have more than all the others?
- No, at MSU even more. Well, MSU is huge, the tower is huge. There are 26 thousand students at HSE, and we have 10 thousand.
But I have not yet said that Parfenov has a department of information systems at the faculty - 68 more olympiadists received there, and this despite the fact that the huge universities, in my opinion, Polytech - only 67 olympiadians. It’s another thing that many people think that olympiads are nonsense, but we don’t think so - there are olympiads of the highest level.
How are we going to learn? There is only one salvation. When Stankevich and Korneev entered the year 98, they were taught by the “Leningrad team”. Because then there were no class teachers in any university (maybe, except for math) to teach. But on the matter, if you look now, there are 300 teachers for 500 people. And what will happen next - I do not know, but maybe the University lives by its own laws. But in the Polytechnic there was one teacher for five people, and according to the law, one teacher was needed for 12 people. And so how it will all dock, I do not know.
So, the tower. Recently, Postgres Professional gathered representatives from HSE, from ITMO, from MIPT, from Moscow State University, and showed what HSE is. HSE has a very strong faculty, many laboratories are also engaged in science, are engaged in the framework of the project 5-100. This discussion has been recorded on the Internet, and I spoke there for half an hour.
We have different points of view. All these universities - Moscow State University, HSE, MIPT - serve, as we had in the 90s, the combined team of Moscow, who all work in Yandex, in the Academy of Sciences, and they travel from one place to another, and all work and have one publication per year, because they have no time. And, for example, in HSE there is a bioinformatics laboratory, but it is headed by Gelfand, and not a graduate or employee of HSE. And my goal is completely different. I want our scientists and teachers to have, if possible, only our graduates - they are so strong, so good, and we know them historically, I talked about this.
In short, as we now provide these 200 people. Stankevich and Korneev taught teams in mathematics, physics, programming, and everything. Now they are the main teachers, and they have already taught both undergraduate and graduate students, and graduates.
We don’t have old men, except me and Parfenov, but in some matters we can still give odds to young people. In addition, I believe that no old people can teach Linux well, for example. I once rode in a trolley bus, and this is some kind of horror - an old man is sitting, well, older than me, and reading a book about Linux. It is clear that he is doing - he will now deal with a crime - he, apparently, goes to the university to give a lecture. Who can he lecture on, what can he lecture about? "Memories of Linux," maybe Unix? Memories can only tell how he once used it.
- I'll tell you an interesting idea. Many people think: “how can they prepare for universities in a university?” I think that in any way. Now I will explain my point of view.
What can we do and what is good at it? To hold summer and winter computer schools, olympiads, etc., to recruit good applicants, like this year 200 people. And at the undergraduate level of good children, we can cook very well. And our employees, olympiads and not only olympiads, know perfectly well everything that is included in the undergraduate course: both operating systems and networking, and programming languages ... And at the master’s level, basic departments should be organized from those enterprises that want to cooked. Right now with Akronis we have such conversations.
And you don’t even have to argue with this, because MIPT in Moscow is known worldwide for the fact that they are a cool university due to the fact that from the third year students are taught in basic departments. This is a famous mechanism that sounded at MIPT.
We take people to the magistracy, somehow we teach. But really, no matter how well we teach, if people from the third or fourth year either do not study science or do not work somewhere in the company, then they will not be taken for good money after graduation.
And in Leningrad there are excellent universities, I will not call them now, where there are wonderful guys who graduate from excellent faculties with theoretical specialties in the field of information technology. These guys are getting us a secretary for 15-20 thousand rubles a month and they say that the whole issue receives such salaries today in Leningrad, in a beautiful place. And why? - , . . 15-20 .
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Anatoly Abramovich Shalyto - a legendary personality. Professor, Doctor of Technical Sciences, Head of the ITMO University Programming Technology Department, working mainly at the famous computer technology department, which teaches and graduates all famous Olympiad winners at the ACM ICPC Programming Olympiad, winner of the Russian Government Prize for Education. Anatoly Abramovich is also famous for his irreconcilable position on the interaction of universities with business and his contribution to automatic programming and my favorite notes about motivation .
')
They wanted to talk for 50-60 minutes, but it turned out a half hour. So I decided to split this interview into two parts. Your attention is the first part in which we talked:
- about the award of the Government of Russia in the field of education;
- on ITMO rebranding;
- about world programming contests;
- which universities enter the champions of school programming olympiads;
- how to prepare specialists for real work at the university;
- how to make the best students after graduation remain working in the university;
- (suddenly!) as Andrei Pangin found himself on Odnoklassniki.
Enjoy watching.
For those who prefer to read rather than listen - decoding as always under the cut.
About the Russian Government Prize in Education
- Let's start with the Russian government education award. What kind of prize is this, and do I understand correctly that this award was received not only by you, but also by many of your students?
- So, the situation is the following - there are various government awards: there are science and technology awards, there are some other cultural awards, and there is a Russian government education award. It is awarded once a year, signed, approved by the Presidency of the Government, the competition is the wildest there. When we filed in 2008, there were 179 candidates for 15 awards. And the prize is interesting because there is a mixture of information technology and agriculture, the violin. And when Parfenov and I (Vladimir Glebovich Parfenov - Dean of the Faculty of Information Technology and Programming at ITMO University - auth.) Wrote these papers, we copied them 20 times. Vasiliev (Vladimir Nikolaevich Vasiliev - Rector of ITMO University - Auth. Comment) said that it is necessary to write them in such a way that if there is a rector of an agricultural institute, culture and, for example, physical education (will be experts) in the commission, they should understand that we have contributed to education. And this is how we rewrote this text 20 times.
- That is, it was such a special exercise.
- Specially written so that it was available to any expert in the field of education, what is our contribution. And in short, the main thing is that this award included not only me, Parfenov and Vasiliev, but also two young guys: Georgy Korneyev (Georgy Korneyev - associate professor of the ITMO Department of Computer Technologies, winner of the ACM ICPC gold medal in 2001), who was 27 years old, and Matvey Kazakov, who was 29 years old. I do not think that there is at least one enterprise in the world that shares its premiums with young people, especially in Russia. I still partially, to this day, work at NPO Aurora, in the shipbuilding industry. And when I received this award, ours received an award on science and technology. The general director of our office [Vitold Vitalyevich] Voytetsky then said: “What is more difficult - to become a doctor, a candidate or a prize? Of course, it is more difficult to get a prize, because doctors and candidates are an uncountable thing, and here the government allocates so many places every year, and therefore no one here will share with you. ”
And we shared. And in short, today we have Andrei Stankevich (associate professor of computer technology at ITMO University, winner of the ACM ICPC gold medal in 2001, coach of the ITMO programming team, winner of the ACM ICPC Senior Coach Award) at 22 years old won the President's Award education in the composition already for the things olympiad with Moscow University, Saratov and others. There he was in the award (he, I think, was 26 years old) and Roma Elizarov , and this year he received Maxim Buzdalov, who is also 29 years old. That is, we already have five laureates who are under 30 years old. Others don’t share their prizes with the guys.
When we received this award, there were 15 teams, and there we were like boys, because there, for example, the team was from Bauman University from 72 to 89 years old, these are mostly frames. Now getting it is very difficult. First, it was possible to receive the award again, secondly, it was possible to receive 10 people, and now once, five people in the award. And so it turns out that Maxim Buzdalov was in the top five and became the laureate of this prize at the age of 29. I think we are cool. I don’t think anyone else shares the awards with their students.
About ITMO rebranding
- On you here is an interesting T-shirt. "IT`s MOre than a UNIVERSITY" is written. I saw the same on ITMO buses that are parked in the university’s backyard. What is this slogan so interesting and can you say something at all, what about the name of the university?
- I can tell. Of course, I am not a bus, although one person once told me that I looked like a bulldozer, so a bulldozer could also be a slogan. It is written: “ITMO is more than a university”, this is due to the fact that we are entering the program 5-100 . It is Putin who said that by 2020, five Russian universities should be in the top 100 universities in the world. I didn’t say that the whole university was or the subject matter, we already got into the subject matter! The destiny of universities in this program is decided by an international commission, which includes not only ours, - Gref and others, - but also foreigners - rectors of the University of Hong Kong, and Arizona, etc.
And we made the main remark that the name is no good - very long - “St. Petersburg State Tu-that …… information technologies, mechanics and optics ...” - there are no such names. It happens Harvard, there is Cornell, but here something is so wild. And the rector put on the Academic Council the question of what to offer in Russian and in English another name. The person to whom it was entrusted, put 12 names on the screen, and they all began with “St. Petersburg”, which took one hundred and only places. And even my beloved dean, my friend, Parfenov, also said: "St. Petersburg." After that it was clear that we wouldn’t fit anywhere with this name.
I got up and said that I know how to do it, it is very simple. In the programming championships, there is very little space on information boards, and therefore it is written either ITMO or ITMO University. Let's call our university “ITMO University”, and without decoding: “ITMO” as a proper name. Now the universities are called Peter the Great, Alexander of some kind - it is not clear to me who this is intended for. I suggested: "Let's vote." The rector said: "We will discuss the month." In general, they discussed the month and [chose my version]. Only I don't know English well, I said “University ITMO”, in English I need “ITMO University”.
The official name (for tax services, etc.) remains that long, as it should be. This year, when we won the Team Undergraduate Programming World Championships for the seventh time, the next move took place in public opinion: we approached Harvard, Cornell and others. On the sidelines of the championship, Americans say: “They are coming from ITEmOu.” There is already no “university” in the title, and the championship organizers have become accustomed to this. We are approaching in name to what is supposed to be - ITMO, just ITMO, like Harvard, like Cornell, like someone else. We went through different stages of changing the name. I don’t wear this t-shirt specifically for your show, I wore black shirts, Zuckerberg wears gray, and I wear black because I have such a build. I ordered 15 t-shirts for myself, and now I constantly walk, combining business with pleasure. On the one hand, I am proud of the place where I work, and on the other - black and beautiful.
- In colors, as you can see, we converge.
- Fully converge.
About programming contests
- Look, there is ITMO University, which is a former institute of LITMO, and there is a story with a separate department, with individuals, which is now rattling the whole world. Students in your department win at ACM ICPC and other Olympiads related to programming, and graduates, many of whom we know, occupy leading positions. We, for example, had Roma Elizarov, who was the champion of Russia.
- And one of the main things now is to host the Olympics. And the main for the semi-finals. He is already at 3-4 place in the world for the organization of these competitions.
- Yes, he was here with us, he told me how they were broadcasting ... We also had Maxim Shafirov , who from the St. Petersburg State University has something to do with all this, he was engaged in a team there.
- In 2001 and 2000, they became world champions for the first time, and there were Durov and Lopatin, and the third person changed.
- For ITMO University itself, it is not a secret, the activity of the department and its success at the Olympiads is such a good advertising billboard. Such a thing that can be raised and said that here we are fucking taught and so on. But on the other hand, we all understand that this is some elite, and ITMO University is a big university, thousands of people study and work there, how does this coexist inside the university? When there is a department or direction of people who are very closely involved in something and make advertising, apparently, the whole university is a big organization. Probably somehow not very easy to coexist with them?
- In fact, the success of this department and in general everything that happens with the institute has one main reason - the rector of our university Vasiliev, who has been the head of this department for 20 years now. And Parfenov, who is the dean and deputy. head of the department, but in fact leads this work. That is, at first they glorified themselves, roughly speaking. They made this extraordinary place, it overflowed to the University.
I can not say that people are delighted with the fact that we won the World Programming Championship for the seventh time. However, many say: "Sick." From this sick about the same as in the "White Sun of the Desert": "Did you bring some bread? Already I can not have this black caviar with spoons. ” And they told me inside the university and said outside: “Well, how much can you? Well, sick. Some see it as “really true?”, While others speak angrily about it. And they say: "This is a sport." Well, yes, this is such a unique sport that it is even difficult to come up with, and the results are generally some staggering. Recently, I looked at which of the team sports coaches achieved more success than our Andrei Stankevich.
- Well, maybe, Viner? (Irina Viner-Usmanova - coach of the Russian national rhythmic gymnastics team - author's note)
- Now I’ll say this too. I think that in the team sport in the USSR and Russia, Tarasov, the hockey coach, achieved the most success. They were world champions nine times in a row - from 1963 to 1971. And I told Andrei that he needed two more times to catch up with Tarasov. But then one boy, Maksim Buzdalov, great to me, said: “And what is there for Tarasov for the problem? He had no restriction to participate in the World Cup final twice. ” And here there is a limitation that in the final no more than two times. Tarasov took Ragulin and, in my opinion, he played with him eight times. Therefore, if they took Gena Korotkevich now, then the achievement of Tarasov would have fallen long ago.
Now about Wiener. When we became champions for the fifth or sixth time, one person, in my opinion, Ruslan Bogatyrev, who in “PC World” led a serious heading about programming at one time, wrote that in Russia there are only three coaches who have impeccable victories - This is Wiener in rhythmic gymnastics, Pokrovskaya in synchronized swimming and Stankevich in sports programming. Well, here Lopatin is close (Andrey Lopatin - coach of the St. Petersburg State University team in sports programming - author's note) from St. Petersburg State University. Wiener and Pokrovskaya were given the title of Heroes of Labor of Russia, and therefore Stankevich must also be moved there.
But the trick is that sports programming is not a sport. I have said this many times, called for it, we discussed it, but the guys don’t want, they don’t understand why. There are, for example, graduate student Niyaz Nigmatullin and student Gene Korotkevich. And if they were at the same time honored masters of sports, and Stankevich would be an honored coach of the Russian Federation, then this is a pension, and honor. They are much smaller than graduate students and associate professors. But they do not want any, although now was a chance to make a federation.
- Federation on sports programming?
- Sports Programming Federation. Especially since there are world championships, all-Russian ...
- They are still saying that there will be a cyber sports federation.
- She is already there. And there is a go go federation. Kuznetsov, a professor from Petrozavodsk, ruined all this raspberries for me. He said that they punched this federation for 8 years and did not receive a penny. Because they entered the department of the sports committee for intellectual games, and there are chess and checkers, and everything is seized a hundred years ahead.
And representatives of foreign universities say that rectors do not like sports at all. They give money for programming programming contests: trips, trainings ... And they won't give money for “sports programming” at all. That was the end of it. But in order to organize a Federation, the first thing is to recognize this as a sport. And now I made a last attempt and, as Pontius Pilate said, I washed my hands.
I am last talking about it here. Because when our champions were at the reception of Medvedev, I asked the guys to tell the Prime Minister that he tell Mutko to do sports programming as a sport. If Medvedev accepts you or Putin, then any of them would have said Mutko, and he would have made sports programming a sport in one blow. Then there would be a complicated procedure for it to become a federation: it is necessary that there be representative offices in fifty regions, and some people already agree ... In general, this could be done.
We have Vitalik Aksenov, who at the age of 15 graduated from school 239 (with a gold medal in the famous Physics and Mathematics School in St. Petersburg - auth.). And he said that when he returned from graduate school from France, I would like to do this. In general, it did not work out: the boy, to whom I proposed to tell Medvedev about the federation, said that he did not understand why this was necessary. Like, and so all my surroundings know that this is cool. I told him: “You are going to be a professional programmer, in 45 years you will go blind. And here it is an honor and a pension if you will be in Russia. ”In general, this is different from any other people.
And it did not work out to say. And Roma Elizarov wanted to say, but he had Kotlin. The next time there will be a meeting with Putin or Medvedev - it is not clear, we must again win the world championship. Therefore, for the time being, the matter has risen.
Now about the other. I once invented one trick, and we accepted seven great people as honorary Doctors of ITMO, starting with Wirth and ending with Hopcroft - they are all honorary Doctors of ITMO. The last was Kalman, who invented the famous filter .
Returning to the fact that Stankevich was not served on Hero of Labor. What a hero, if there are no orders and medals of the previous ones? Wiener had all this - they are given orders, medals, cars of merit at the Olympics. Olympiad programming is steeper than this, but they give nothing. Unless, sometimes there are champions with state leaders, this is also not bad.
But then the rector suggested, and the academic council accepted, and we elected Stankevich, at the age of 33, as honorary doctor of ITMO. He is still uncomfortable to this day, he still has not been given a mantle and a cap. He said that he was uncomfortable - they are great there, Wirth is there, Hopcroft, Kahn is there, Kalman is there, there is Straustrup, and what kind of supposedly am I among them? But it does not matter, he is an honorary doctor ITMO. Who and in what university at the age of 33 became an honorary doctor of a university that is now known all over the world?
Why do we do all this well? Because our rector is not a metallurgist or a lawyer, but the head of this department. This is his personal interest, this is his personal glory, this is his personal success. In 1991, they and Parfenov invented this department and invented it in a very original way, contrary to everyone, including the Leningrad University and the whole environment of the university. Because they decided to prepare in a technical university, one might say defense, which was engaged in optics, gifted children in the field of physics, mathematics, and especially programming.
And they began to recruit schools, to go: 239 there, others. Began to persuade to come here. And the programs were very interesting. Physics and mathematics were read not by people from our department, but from St. Petersburg State University. And by the way, this year we have a mathematician who reads Kokhas, whose last name is in school 239 on the board of honor, that he is the winner of international competitions. And now Stankevich told me that, apparently, we are teaching well, since the son of Kokhas came to us. Another person working at the “big university” (as St. Petersburg State University is called in St. Petersburg - REM. Aut.) Said, they say, you seem to be doing better than math. I say: “Why?” - “Because you have more olympiads”. Of course, they have good guys, but olympiadniki - they are brighter.
What universities do olympiads enter
- Look, in my class, in St. Petersburg State University mathematics, I got 16 people, and ITMO received four people at the ITMO department (in fact, two of them - author's note). Now, probably, the situation has changed.
- I don’t know how much St. Petersburg State University is doing, but I know that we have a great success this year. In general, an incredible success - we received 7 people from the “first” class 239 (in FML, 239 classes are traditionally numbered not with letters, but with numbers; “1” is a class recruited from the famous center, 239 and, accordingly, , the strongest) and 45 people in general in LITMO arrived from release 239. That is a lot. I was told by people from LETI that if, historically, suppose parents sent their children to LETI to study who works there, now even they send their children to ITMO.
We have now achieved some kind of awesome result. There are three types of olympiadics - four people in the Russian national team, there are winners of the “All-Russian” competition (All-Russian Olympiad - author's note) and winners, there are winners of the Olympiads approved by the rectors' union. This year, for 120 budgetary places, 178 people submitted documents (and we are obliged to accept them!). There was the 179th, but he escaped from this horror ...
- How is it even possible? You have the same budget places and a half times less.
- No one is interested. We must accept everyone. In HSE (Higher School of Economics - author's note) the same picture is about. But in the HSE for any specialty, they believe, there should be at least 25% of non-elapsed people. They have even more olympiadnikov.
In short, we have now admitted only 178 olympiadians to our department, 11 of them are winners and prize-winners of Vseros ... A girl, Alexandra Drozdova, entered, who received a silver medal at the international olympiad ... who was the first scientist on Google. He left the 4th year for graduate school, and in Google he became the first scientist. So this girl, his niece, came to us after many years - now. Plus, we had to take three with special health, we accepted 10 people by the Intergovernmental Agreement with Belarus. And they took one girl with 309 points on the exam from 300, allowed to add to each applicant for some success up to 10 points.
And we did not take 13 people with 300 points and above! All this led to the minister saying that the rules for admission will be changed next year. Well, in general, it is right somewhere, because not taking people with 300 points is something abnormal. But we could not accept them: in spite of the fact that we had 120 places, we already took 60 people beyond that.
- How will you live with this? Your school year is starting ...
- That tomorrow begins the school year. When we started, we were two groups, 50 people started, 30 people finished. Now, too, to study wildly difficult. This year 21 people graduated from the magistracy. I asked Korneev how many six years ago there were 68 people. We accepted 32 people for the magistracy, and not only from those 68, but we still got 3-5, I don’t know how much ..., but we graduated 21, that is, 30%. I think that not more than 50 will graduate from these 200. We don’t even deduct them, they somehow disappear themselves - they get 5-10 tails and somehow ... It is very difficult to learn, and not only from us. I read about MIPT - there is some kind of death there.
This year we will have about 10 groups.
- Where else do olympiads go? They probably go to the same MIPT, MSU, St. Petersburg State University?
- No, now the privileged place has appeared - Tower.
- Moscow Tower?
- Moscow Tower. There are olympiadists in general ... ITMO olympiadists 350 approximately came to LETI 16, and HSE received 700 with something in all subjects.
- They have more than all the others?
- No, at MSU even more. Well, MSU is huge, the tower is huge. There are 26 thousand students at HSE, and we have 10 thousand.
But I have not yet said that Parfenov has a department of information systems at the faculty - 68 more olympiadists received there, and this despite the fact that the huge universities, in my opinion, Polytech - only 67 olympiadians. It’s another thing that many people think that olympiads are nonsense, but we don’t think so - there are olympiads of the highest level.
How are we going to learn? There is only one salvation. When Stankevich and Korneev entered the year 98, they were taught by the “Leningrad team”. Because then there were no class teachers in any university (maybe, except for math) to teach. But on the matter, if you look now, there are 300 teachers for 500 people. And what will happen next - I do not know, but maybe the University lives by its own laws. But in the Polytechnic there was one teacher for five people, and according to the law, one teacher was needed for 12 people. And so how it will all dock, I do not know.
So, the tower. Recently, Postgres Professional gathered representatives from HSE, from ITMO, from MIPT, from Moscow State University, and showed what HSE is. HSE has a very strong faculty, many laboratories are also engaged in science, are engaged in the framework of the project 5-100. This discussion has been recorded on the Internet, and I spoke there for half an hour.
We have different points of view. All these universities - Moscow State University, HSE, MIPT - serve, as we had in the 90s, the combined team of Moscow, who all work in Yandex, in the Academy of Sciences, and they travel from one place to another, and all work and have one publication per year, because they have no time. And, for example, in HSE there is a bioinformatics laboratory, but it is headed by Gelfand, and not a graduate or employee of HSE. And my goal is completely different. I want our scientists and teachers to have, if possible, only our graduates - they are so strong, so good, and we know them historically, I talked about this.
In short, as we now provide these 200 people. Stankevich and Korneev taught teams in mathematics, physics, programming, and everything. Now they are the main teachers, and they have already taught both undergraduate and graduate students, and graduates.
We don’t have old men, except me and Parfenov, but in some matters we can still give odds to young people. In addition, I believe that no old people can teach Linux well, for example. I once rode in a trolley bus, and this is some kind of horror - an old man is sitting, well, older than me, and reading a book about Linux. It is clear that he is doing - he will now deal with a crime - he, apparently, goes to the university to give a lecture. Who can he lecture on, what can he lecture about? "Memories of Linux," maybe Unix? Memories can only tell how he once used it.
How to prepare specialists for real work at the university
- I'll tell you an interesting idea. Many people think: “how can they prepare for universities in a university?” I think that in any way. Now I will explain my point of view.
What can we do and what is good at it? To hold summer and winter computer schools, olympiads, etc., to recruit good applicants, like this year 200 people. And at the undergraduate level of good children, we can cook very well. And our employees, olympiads and not only olympiads, know perfectly well everything that is included in the undergraduate course: both operating systems and networking, and programming languages ... And at the master’s level, basic departments should be organized from those enterprises that want to cooked. Right now with Akronis we have such conversations.
And you don’t even have to argue with this, because MIPT in Moscow is known worldwide for the fact that they are a cool university due to the fact that from the third year students are taught in basic departments. This is a famous mechanism that sounded at MIPT.
We take people to the magistracy, somehow we teach. But really, no matter how well we teach, if people from the third or fourth year either do not study science or do not work somewhere in the company, then they will not be taken for good money after graduation.
And in Leningrad there are excellent universities, I will not call them now, where there are wonderful guys who graduate from excellent faculties with theoretical specialties in the field of information technology. These guys are getting us a secretary for 15-20 thousand rubles a month and they say that the whole issue receives such salaries today in Leningrad, in a beautiful place. And why? - , . . 15-20 .
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Source: https://habr.com/ru/post/340040/
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