The Future of CSS: An Interview with Eric Meyer
Eric Meyer is a well-known HTML and CSS standards expert who has been working in the field of web technologies since 1993. He published books such as Cascading Style Sheets. Detailed Guide ”(O'Reilly),“ CSS 2.0 Developer Reference ”(Osborne / McGraw-Hill) and“ Eric Mayer on CSS ”(New Riders). He also participated in numerous conferences devoted to web standards, CSS application and web design.
Joseph Lawyer is the interviewer for him - bestselling author of the Dreamweaver CS3 Bible and CSS Hacks and Filters. He is currently in charge of the marketing department at WebAssist.
By Joseph Lawyer
Original: http://adobe.com/newsletters/edge/december2007/articles/article5/index.html
Translator: Alexander Musaev
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Joseph Lowery: In preparation for this interview, I met your article written in June 1999 about browser support for CSS and the future of this technology. No one doubts your experience, however, how exactly do you manage to make such predictions?
Eric Meyer: According to the original plan, CSS technology is divided into modules, each of which was formed at a certain stage. The difficulty here is that each of these time intervals, as a rule, is strongly inhibited. Even the most "simple" modules form a long history of development.
Previously, I argued that some innovations are only on the horizon, but now they are much closer to the embodiment. The transparency feature of elements, for example, has already been implemented in many browsers, albeit in different ways. On the other hand, the possibility of splitting text into columns still remains in a very distant future.
The development of browsers, too, took shape all this time in approximately the way described in the article, although, of course, I could not have foreseen the death of Netscape 5 and the rise of Mozilla. I doubt that such a forecast was possible at all to be made at that time.
JL: Let's go back to the present. In your opinion, was the appearance of Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 a big leap in its development?
EM: It was more like a big jump in place. I mean, in the new version, many IE 6 defects were fixed (for example, parser errors, problems with markup, etc.). In addition, it added a number of basic features of CSS 2 (mainly selectors and rigid positioning). In IE 7, it all came together at the same time, which was good news for all of us.
Now it becomes very interesting whether the evolution of IE 7 is stuck in place, as it was with IE 6, and whether this browser will increasingly lag behind its competitors in development, or the expansion of its capabilities will last. I really hope for the second option.
JL: As far as I know, CSS 3 is currently under discussion and development in the W3C. Can you describe in general terms what new properties and selectors designers can expect from this standard?
EM: You misunderstood. What they are now discussing and developing are separate CSS modules, each of which refers to a specific stage in the development of technology.
It is possible that the CSS 3 standard will never appear as it was with CSS 2 . And I still have not come to a final decision, good or bad, but I tend to the last option. With such a development, the common goal disappears.
Regardless of what we think about the individual parts of CSS 2, the standard remains one. This is a subject for discussion, a topic for which you can talk. The details of CSS 2 are interdependent. In terms of modularity, this integrity disappears. Interdependencies are much more difficult to understand.
As for the new features that await us in the future, you can bring a number of new selectors. In particular
In addition to all of the above, a module for support of encodings with wide possibilities is planned, which probably should be great for those who still dream of the possibility of the existence of ASCII art on the web.
The main reason that it’s difficult to answer your question unequivocally is that the development of CSS depends largely on the developers of browsers, and they do not have the habit of disclosing their plans. I think, most likely, the first we will see selectors. In Opera 9.5, for example, they promise to embody the full support of the selectors module in the form in which it now exists. I think the most likely innovations in browsers will be mostly simple to implement - these are all the same selectors, units of measurement, etc.
JL: It looks like the CSS specification today is the subject of a lot of disagreement. What are the main reasons for this? What do you, as a former W3C member, think about the possible consequences of these contradictions?
EM: It’s hard to answer your question because of the modularity of CSS. Different modules have their reasons for disagreement. In addition, it is difficult for me to judge this also because I left the CSS team in 2004.
Based on my own experience, I can assume that the main contradictions arise between what would be useful to add to CSS, what to add there already prescribed, as well as the fact that the developers will implement in reality. It turns out the battle on three fronts, accompanied by considerable confusion.
What is happening now is absolutely normal for the development of technology, but I will not argue that this is good for the web.
JL: Can you predict the order in which new features appear in browsers after the specification begins to be recommended? Is the new dawn of the CSS hack era coming?
EM: Even if some browsers introduce new features, while others do not, we already learned the principle of progressive development : advanced features should be used in such a way that they have a positive effect on the users of those browsers that support them. At the same time, it is necessary to avoid any deterioration in user characteristics in relation to those who stayed with old browsers. A good example is the use of generated content to insert URL links into the text before printing it (see the article “ CSS Design: Preparing for Printing ” on “ A List Apart ” for details).
I think the number of CSS hacks will increase, but the main reason will be the interest of people in finding and using these hacks. The process is similar to picking up a mosaic.
JL: Nowadays, CSS rendering capabilities are actively developing in programs for web page development. In particular, in Dreamweaver. Do you think this will affect the quality of the work of designers?
EM: Absolutely. I talked to many young designers who already do not fit in my head, why use tables for page marking. They just don't understand it. Such changes in the industry are largely justified by the functionality of the tools for creating web pages and the way browsers are developing now (both factors are equally significant).
JL: Our company recently collaborated with you on the development of a Dreamweaver extension called " Eric Meyer's CSS Sculptor ." Has your life changed for the better after your name made this name famous?
EM: Yes, I get applause at conferences now, for which I am incredibly grateful, Joe. And yet (just don't tell anyone) I recently built a huge pool in my basement to keep money earned in it. This brings me closer to the cherished dream - to embody the image of Scrooge MacDuck.
No other significant changes have occurred.
JL: Seriously, do you think the appearance of the CSS Sculptor influenced the work of Dreamweaver users? And, if so, in what way?
EM: I hope this has increased the speed of page layout development using CSS. CSS Sculptor is one of the software products that I use myself. And this is a great compliment in his direction, because I belong to the old school of web designers who prefer manual coding (I have 14 years of experience in this field).
One of the main advantages of the Sculptor interface is that almost all CSS properties are displayed in it very compactly, besides it gives an intuitive view of the structure of the document and style sheets applied to it. All this allows the designer to perceive well how CSS integrates with the web page. CSS Sculptor is a tool that is applicable not only for development, but also for training. And it makes me happy.
JL: How would you like to see CSS support in Dreamweaver?
EM: As long as this support remains adequate to the capabilities of current browser versions, it will suit me.
JL: What advice would you give to web designers who are just starting out? Those who will have to use CSS in the future?
EM: The most important advice that I can give: practice, practice and practice again. Without it, there will be no difference how many books, articles and specifications you read. All this will never replace the practical experience gained by experimentation.
To achieve the goal, it is also necessary to pay great attention to the study of technology. All those who are going to become professional web designers should be well versed in HTML, CSS and image formats, just like artists in brushes and paints. A professional designer, taking a graphic layout, should be able to bring it to life.
Do not say that designers should always be able to create. They simply must possess this ability, feel the nature of the environment in which they work, and also understand what can be obtained from tools such as Dreamweaver and Sculptor.
JL: What information resources would you recommend?
EM: One of the best CSS resources is the wiki on which this technology is discussed. The site css-discuss.incutio.org collected a huge amount of information accumulated during the five-year work of specialized mailing . There you can find a description of the pros and cons of using different CSS techniques, explaining in simple language the complex aspects of using CSS, tons of links to other resources and much more. This is the first source of information that I address myself when I want to find out something about CSS.
In addition to the wiki, you should pay attention to PositionIsEverything.net , materials from the House of Style website, as well as Russ Weekee’s short tutorials . To decipher complex selectors, I recommend SelectORacle . And of course, it’s worth adding the all-seeing Google eye to the list.
DL: Do not forget about another interesting resource - your blog on meyerweb.com . Eric, thank you very much for sharing your thoughts about the present and future CSS with us.
Other screenshots and presentation of this product can be found on the official website .
Update: Article moved to the cascading style sheets blog.
Joseph Lawyer is the interviewer for him - bestselling author of the Dreamweaver CS3 Bible and CSS Hacks and Filters. He is currently in charge of the marketing department at WebAssist.
By Joseph Lawyer
Original: http://adobe.com/newsletters/edge/december2007/articles/article5/index.html
Translator: Alexander Musaev
')
Joseph Lowery: In preparation for this interview, I met your article written in June 1999 about browser support for CSS and the future of this technology. No one doubts your experience, however, how exactly do you manage to make such predictions?
Eric Meyer: According to the original plan, CSS technology is divided into modules, each of which was formed at a certain stage. The difficulty here is that each of these time intervals, as a rule, is strongly inhibited. Even the most "simple" modules form a long history of development.
Previously, I argued that some innovations are only on the horizon, but now they are much closer to the embodiment. The transparency feature of elements, for example, has already been implemented in many browsers, albeit in different ways. On the other hand, the possibility of splitting text into columns still remains in a very distant future.
The development of browsers, too, took shape all this time in approximately the way described in the article, although, of course, I could not have foreseen the death of Netscape 5 and the rise of Mozilla. I doubt that such a forecast was possible at all to be made at that time.
JL: Let's go back to the present. In your opinion, was the appearance of Microsoft Internet Explorer 7 a big leap in its development?
EM: It was more like a big jump in place. I mean, in the new version, many IE 6 defects were fixed (for example, parser errors, problems with markup, etc.). In addition, it added a number of basic features of CSS 2 (mainly selectors and rigid positioning). In IE 7, it all came together at the same time, which was good news for all of us.
Now it becomes very interesting whether the evolution of IE 7 is stuck in place, as it was with IE 6, and whether this browser will increasingly lag behind its competitors in development, or the expansion of its capabilities will last. I really hope for the second option.
JL: As far as I know, CSS 3 is currently under discussion and development in the W3C. Can you describe in general terms what new properties and selectors designers can expect from this standard?
EM: You misunderstood. What they are now discussing and developing are separate CSS modules, each of which refers to a specific stage in the development of technology.
It is possible that the CSS 3 standard will never appear as it was with CSS 2 . And I still have not come to a final decision, good or bad, but I tend to the last option. With such a development, the common goal disappears.
Regardless of what we think about the individual parts of CSS 2, the standard remains one. This is a subject for discussion, a topic for which you can talk. The details of CSS 2 are interdependent. In terms of modularity, this integrity disappears. Interdependencies are much more difficult to understand.
As for the new features that await us in the future, you can bring a number of new selectors. In particular
:nth-child() :last-of-type and some others. It will also appear :not() , which will be useful, but whose description scares me now. In addition to them, I myself really like the format of the RGBA color description, in which “A” means “alpha”, as well as the HLS and HLSA formats (for the color reproduction model hue-lightness-saturation, - comment of the translator). I would really like to see these features implemented in browsers as quickly as possible.In addition to all of the above, a module for support of encodings with wide possibilities is planned, which probably should be great for those who still dream of the possibility of the existence of ASCII art on the web.
The main reason that it’s difficult to answer your question unequivocally is that the development of CSS depends largely on the developers of browsers, and they do not have the habit of disclosing their plans. I think, most likely, the first we will see selectors. In Opera 9.5, for example, they promise to embody the full support of the selectors module in the form in which it now exists. I think the most likely innovations in browsers will be mostly simple to implement - these are all the same selectors, units of measurement, etc.
JL: It looks like the CSS specification today is the subject of a lot of disagreement. What are the main reasons for this? What do you, as a former W3C member, think about the possible consequences of these contradictions?
EM: It’s hard to answer your question because of the modularity of CSS. Different modules have their reasons for disagreement. In addition, it is difficult for me to judge this also because I left the CSS team in 2004.
Based on my own experience, I can assume that the main contradictions arise between what would be useful to add to CSS, what to add there already prescribed, as well as the fact that the developers will implement in reality. It turns out the battle on three fronts, accompanied by considerable confusion.
What is happening now is absolutely normal for the development of technology, but I will not argue that this is good for the web.
JL: Can you predict the order in which new features appear in browsers after the specification begins to be recommended? Is the new dawn of the CSS hack era coming?
EM: Even if some browsers introduce new features, while others do not, we already learned the principle of progressive development : advanced features should be used in such a way that they have a positive effect on the users of those browsers that support them. At the same time, it is necessary to avoid any deterioration in user characteristics in relation to those who stayed with old browsers. A good example is the use of generated content to insert URL links into the text before printing it (see the article “ CSS Design: Preparing for Printing ” on “ A List Apart ” for details).
I think the number of CSS hacks will increase, but the main reason will be the interest of people in finding and using these hacks. The process is similar to picking up a mosaic.
JL: Nowadays, CSS rendering capabilities are actively developing in programs for web page development. In particular, in Dreamweaver. Do you think this will affect the quality of the work of designers?
EM: Absolutely. I talked to many young designers who already do not fit in my head, why use tables for page marking. They just don't understand it. Such changes in the industry are largely justified by the functionality of the tools for creating web pages and the way browsers are developing now (both factors are equally significant).
JL: Our company recently collaborated with you on the development of a Dreamweaver extension called " Eric Meyer's CSS Sculptor ." Has your life changed for the better after your name made this name famous?
EM: Yes, I get applause at conferences now, for which I am incredibly grateful, Joe. And yet (just don't tell anyone) I recently built a huge pool in my basement to keep money earned in it. This brings me closer to the cherished dream - to embody the image of Scrooge MacDuck.
No other significant changes have occurred.
JL: Seriously, do you think the appearance of the CSS Sculptor influenced the work of Dreamweaver users? And, if so, in what way?
EM: I hope this has increased the speed of page layout development using CSS. CSS Sculptor is one of the software products that I use myself. And this is a great compliment in his direction, because I belong to the old school of web designers who prefer manual coding (I have 14 years of experience in this field).
One of the main advantages of the Sculptor interface is that almost all CSS properties are displayed in it very compactly, besides it gives an intuitive view of the structure of the document and style sheets applied to it. All this allows the designer to perceive well how CSS integrates with the web page. CSS Sculptor is a tool that is applicable not only for development, but also for training. And it makes me happy.
JL: How would you like to see CSS support in Dreamweaver?
EM: As long as this support remains adequate to the capabilities of current browser versions, it will suit me.
JL: What advice would you give to web designers who are just starting out? Those who will have to use CSS in the future?
EM: The most important advice that I can give: practice, practice and practice again. Without it, there will be no difference how many books, articles and specifications you read. All this will never replace the practical experience gained by experimentation.
To achieve the goal, it is also necessary to pay great attention to the study of technology. All those who are going to become professional web designers should be well versed in HTML, CSS and image formats, just like artists in brushes and paints. A professional designer, taking a graphic layout, should be able to bring it to life.
Do not say that designers should always be able to create. They simply must possess this ability, feel the nature of the environment in which they work, and also understand what can be obtained from tools such as Dreamweaver and Sculptor.
JL: What information resources would you recommend?
EM: One of the best CSS resources is the wiki on which this technology is discussed. The site css-discuss.incutio.org collected a huge amount of information accumulated during the five-year work of specialized mailing . There you can find a description of the pros and cons of using different CSS techniques, explaining in simple language the complex aspects of using CSS, tons of links to other resources and much more. This is the first source of information that I address myself when I want to find out something about CSS.
In addition to the wiki, you should pay attention to PositionIsEverything.net , materials from the House of Style website, as well as Russ Weekee’s short tutorials . To decipher complex selectors, I recommend SelectORacle . And of course, it’s worth adding the all-seeing Google eye to the list.
DL: Do not forget about another interesting resource - your blog on meyerweb.com . Eric, thank you very much for sharing your thoughts about the present and future CSS with us.
From translator
I want to add from myself that I found very useful SelectORacle . The service provides a description in human language of complex CSS selectors and can be very useful when learning of these. Eric Meyer's CSS Sculptor interface for Dreamweaver looks like this:Other screenshots and presentation of this product can be found on the official website .
Update: Article moved to the cascading style sheets blog.
Source: https://habr.com/ru/post/31324/
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