“Going onto the stage is my way of keeping up with the technologies”: interview with Baruh Sadogursky from JFrog

Baruh Sadogursky, aka jbaruch - Developer Advocate of JFrog , a permanent resident of the podcast “Debriefing” and a frequent speaker of Java-conferences, became the guest in the new edition of “No Slides”. During the conversation, he, among other things, had time to speculate:

• about product promotion without intrusive extolling
• that it's time for the Java EE stewardess to bury
• about the difficulties of monetizing open source
• about the exact definition of the word "startup"
• about your drift from technology and the fight against it
• about how JFrog's Artifactory is better than its competitors - and even worse

As always, under the cut - a full transcript of the interview.
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"Groovy - a picture to attract or divert attention"

We are visiting the Moscow JUG, where you and Kirill Tolkachev aka tolkkv made a report today. What was he about?

- About DevOps for mere mortals.

- Has anyone died?

- were close. Now Alexey Abashev told us how he was dragged into the funnel of our report, and nothing good, as I understand it, is not over. In fact, this report is a more detailed version of what we did at the JPoint, and there we had 45 minutes, and now it's 3 hours. At 3 o'clock we almost climbed.

- Questions were interesting?

- Yes, and the most interesting were, as usual, not technological.

- And what, what do you remember?

- “What is DevOps?”. Among the spectators we had two admins - a young man and a girl. And since we had the “DevOps for Developers” report, the admins felt very offended, because we showed how developers should become more administrators, and they wanted to hear about the situation the other way around. Therefore, they could not understand why we are trying to take away a piece of bread from them and why it is impossible to just go to the admins and ask them to set up the server instead of building all this.

- Well, then I have this question for you: how did you even get into this topic? Why did DevOps start to interest you?

- I have an interest in work. JFrog is a company that is engaged in a tool for DevOps, and our entire business is built on the fact that we help companies quickly develop their software using the best tool for DevOps.

- Good. Then I will have a strange question. I once tried to ask it to you, but now we will ask it in the correct form. You love Groovy very much.

- Yes!

- And your job is to advertise JFrog, its products.

- Yes.

- Something is wrong here.

- In fact, the answer is multifaceted. It is quite obvious that developer advocate should not deal with the product pitch of its products, because this is not my job, it does not work and, roughly speaking, nobody is interested. If we had some kind of product, from which all fans would be, because it’s cute and cool, like an iPhone - then you could walk, show an iPhone and collect loot.

Since our product is more hardcore, more backend, not consumer, its sales are engaged in sales. My job is different. In order to somehow attract attention and interest, you need to talk not about the product. Need to talk about any technology. And then I try to somehow talk about what I find interesting, because otherwise I don’t have a drive, otherwise I’m not good at it. Groovy is directly related to our ecosystem, to our products, to what we do, I like this theme, and therefore it is win-win. This is a picture to attract attention.

- As on Habré.

- Yes. Good picture, which I can easily and with pleasure to tell. From there, it is clear how we can talk about what I really get paid for.

- But people say different. You show a naked woman, and everyone starts to heyt your Groovy. Instead of heytit JFrog and say that he sells to us here.

- Picture to attract or distract attention.

- Okay. Do not want - do not answer.

- No, I will answer with pleasure. This is absolutely true. There is a JavaOne conference where you need to speak. I can submit a report "How beautiful the Artifactory is and how disgusting our competitors are," but the chances of taking this report are exactly zero. Or I can report on some Groovy intestines, where among the tulling during this report or somewhere else I will talk about how we use or not use Groovy, all the right words will be mentioned. That's all. This is how it works.

- Can you compare how you do evangelism with how it is done, for example, by other Silicon Valley startups on the same JavaOne? Do they make it thicker, thinner, different?

- As in any profession, there are different techniques. Some do it better, some worse, but in the end everyone is trying to do the same thing. Not that I would invent some know-how and do something that is radically different from what others do.

- So this is product placement in some way?

- This is a technical product placement, technical PR - more with an emphasis on technical, less with an emphasis on PR. And everyone does it. Take, for example, the excellent company ZeroTurnaround, beloved by all of us. Take their initiative VirtualJUG or RebelLabs. Neither there nor there is absolutely no product pitch.

- Well, at the beginning of something.

- This is a commercial break, the sponsor is a little bit different. But one cannot say that the themes on VirtualJUG are chosen according to whether JRebel and XRebel are mentioned there or not, however.

- I think that the mechanics there are more like this: we choose speakers who will gather a larger audience, and then we will somehow convert this audience.

- The fact of the matter is that they do not convert it. There is no product pitch anywhere. The same with their reports - yes, you get a report on how ClassLoader works in Java. Nowhere throughout this report are any ZeroTurnaround products mentioned at all. This is absolutely the same principle. This is the establishment of some technological superiority, yes? “We understand what we do. By the way, since we are so smart and so cool we are probably our products are good. ”

- Well, yes, this positioning itself as a kind of technology leader, an expert.

- Yes it is. Everybody does it. Take Aruna Gupta from Couchbase, who is now considered the undisputed and top Docker expert in the Java community. Does this have something to do with Couchbase? Absolutely none. The only thing out there from Couchbase is that in all the docker image examples it uses are image Couchbase. Everything! There is no place for more product placement.

- I remember it was a game when we sat with Aruna in Kiev, Rodionov, at the conference, and there he naturally deployed some Java Enterprise Server in his container from the console.

- Yes, yes, yes ... Well, again, this all has nothing to do with what he does.

"Bury a Java EE Stewardess"

- I now have a question for you born: what do you think about the hype and the story around Java EE 8?

“No one really knows what happened there.” There are some guesses that they decided to bury her, but they noticed the discontent of the community. They decided that, probably, they got excited and need to somehow release Java EE 8. It is advisable to have a pivot on this in the direction of the business from which there is money. And this is all from there - the anticipation that it will be some version that will be in the cloud, so as to promote the hapless Oracle Cloud. Thus, Orakla calculation is a win-win: firstly, all of you, your favorite Java EE remains, and secondly, from this is our penny, because it will have something to do with the Oracle Cloud.

“Well, the reality is that no one uses Oracle Cloud.”

- Absolutely.

“Because, as far as I understand, more than half is Amazon, of the remaining half is Azure, and then there is nothing.”

- Well no. It's pretty cool there is Google running Google Cloud Platform.

- In my opinion, she, too, is very bad.

- No, no, they consistently go up, they have good technical solutions, good uptime, they are cheaper than Amazon, there is no reason not to use them. They, as usual with Google, had some problems with support, which, as I heard, they decided, and I think they are growing very well now. It is unlikely to the level of the Amazon, but they still have from where to collect the market.

Oracle Cloud - the situation is completely different, there is technically complete hell. To JavaOne, Stephen Chin called me and said, “Baruch, give me a report mentioning the Oracle Cloud, I take it without any selection.” Of course, I agreed, because when such a offer is offered, one must take it.

And I went to try to install Artifactory on the Oracle Cloud. This is hell! There is a nightmare inside. And including therefore nobody uses it. If they finish the technology, maybe they can snatch something.

- I think they are already late, to be honest.

“Well, if they have something revolutionary, simple, reliable, powerful and good there, it’s never too late.” But at the moment it was not standing there.

- Let's talk in the direction of Reza and other vociferous young people.

- In my personal opinion, it's time to bury a stewardess called Java EE. This is a protracted failed experiment that began with the anti-pattern “ivory tower architecture”, when some people are sitting somewhere and inventing how an industry should behave. This did not work, it never worked, and in this case, in my opinion, stagnation is quite obvious. Although, perhaps, I am biased and the whole world works on Java EE, but I just don’t see it. But I see that the last adherents leave there, among prominent people only those who are trying to make money on it are Reza.

- As a consultant?

- Yes. And, in my opinion, it's time to bury this stewardess and close the shop. I'm not sure that this is good, because the lack of competition Spring is not good, but how much can you do this thing.

- Remember, about a year ago there was a story when Oracle fired three evangelists?

- Yes Yes.

- Another HYIP has come up on the subject of the fact that Oracle, they say, wants to score on Java and therefore dismisses evangelists. How did you take it?

“Since I am a person who is trying to be in the know, watching what is happening in this community, and I have never heard the names of these evangelists, I just shrugged and said,“ Well, probably, the evangelists were not very good. ” I'm not saying that they are mediocre, Mark Hackler, for example, now took in Pivotal, and there Josh Long seemed to set the wick on fire where necessary, and he somehow began to work. I hear about him, I see him. But if, before this, the first thing I hear about an evangelist is “he is fired,” that says a lot.

- Yes. Thank you for this comment. Because I also had that feeling. I just knew there is one person - this is, in fact, Simon. Who are the other two people - a mystery.

"We might already be a profitable company."

Is JFrog a startup or not a startup?

- Let's try to answer the question, what is a startup? As far as I understand, there are a couple of dozens of definitions, and, in my humble opinion, a startup is still quite a clear concept. A startup is a company whose profitable monetization model is missing or has not yet been implemented .

- Relatively speaking, we understand how we will make money, but we are not doing this yet. Or we still do not understand how we will earn money.

- If you do not understand how you will earn money, most likely you will never be given money for your company. We understand how to make money, and have already begun to work a little bit. But still, it’s still very far from being profitable - this is a normal situation for a promising startup.

- How then do you get stories like Twitter, which never knew how to make money and, as far as I understand it, is unprofitable, but nevertheless it swells up and is valued at tens of billions of dollars?

- Your question and “is Twitter a start-up or not” - two completely parallel questions that do not overlap. If they attract investment, and do not earn themselves, this is called a “startup”. But they are a public company, they entered an IPO, and at that moment they ceased to be a startup. If they were a private company, the continuation of attracting investments with the absence or non-fulfillment of a profitable model of monetization - for me this is the definition of a startup.

- As I understand it, everyone believes that they will somehow start earning? Therefore, invest in them money?

- Well, they are going to earn advertising. Unshakable faith in advertising monetization thanks to Google exists, flourishes and does not go anywhere. Because it is absolutely certain that a company can earn big money, be the first in the world in terms of capitalization, have a capitalization higher than half of the countries of the world combined, and do it only on advertising.

- Here I will argue with you a little bit, because we understand that this is not just an advertisement. And this, excuse me, is your own browser to show your own ads well, your own operating system, which dominates the market to show your ads and even the devil knows what. The whole world around this ad is built.

- But when you are on your phone follow the link on Twitter - you get into their own browser.

- Well, of course.

- Here you are. No one said it could be done. Absolutely, you can earn on advertising. For this you need to do one, two, three, four. And the one who does it, will earn on advertising. Therefore, investing in Twitter is not a sin.

And if you go back to the question about JFrog?

- JFrog, of course, - a startup. We are not a public company, we are privately owned, we have very good profits, but we spend more. And, accordingly, we attract investments, we had a third round six months ago.

- By the way, who is investing in you - is this public information?

- Yes, yes, public. The last round was Sapphire Ventures. This is a venture capital fund that has spun off from SAP, so it is called Sapphire. They, Scale Venture Partners, Battery Ventures, Vintage Investment Partners and Qumra Capital, all together we scraped together 51 million.

- That is, the model is such that you live for some time with this money, then either you are still attracting or ...

- We have a burn down rate, that is, how we spend this money - they are spent on development, on the purchase of companies, on business development.

- Evangelism.

- Well yes. For salaries. Theoretically, we now could easily be a profitable company, it is great to exist and move forward. But not at the pace we want to do it.

- Therefore, you attract, in fact, the means to grow faster. That is, you change money for a while.

- Yes. Exactly. We can achieve our goals much faster, develop products much faster, we naturally can have many more developers. It is profitable for us, and it is profitable for our investors. As long as they believe that we know what we are doing, it makes sense to invest money in it.

- How technically does this happen? Just the share of the original owners is blurred every time with a new round? Or are there any other mechanisms?

- There are two mechanisms. This is a distribution to employees and distribution to investors. Investors are eroding the share of the initial number of shares. Distributing employee options comes from a pool of stocks that are set aside for this from the very beginning. I do not worry, for example, that some new VP came to us, who received many options, because they do not blur my shares. On the other hand, when an investor is attracted, it accurately blurs my shares. But then I do not worry too!

- This is not your headache.

- That's not the point. Of course, this is my headache - this is my money. But one of the results of this investment is a multiple increase in the value of the company.

- From which you have, albeit small, but a percentage.

- Naturally, the higher the company's value, the higher this percentage, even despite the fact that investors have bitten off a bit of this percentage.

- Are there any statistics on how many, say, startups in the valley are fired, and how many of them with a roar fall into the abyss and break?

- Of course, there are statistics, and I do not remember it, but there we are talking about single-percent percentages. Significantly less than 10%. Again, how to measure the success of a startup, what is the success of a startup? You need to be sure that we all mean the same thing. Firstly, there can be a successful exit, when this startup is bought by another company for money, which obviously beats off all the efforts invested by founders.

- Or by investors.

- Yes, money is returned to investors. But as a startup, after all, are founders, right? That is, if I do some kind of startup, in the end the whole purpose of the existence of this startup is for me to end up with a little bit of money. It means that he has been living without a salary for a year, he sleeps in a sleeping bag in the workplace, his wife left him, took the children because he is not at home. Yes, and there is no house either, sold wages to pay. If he ended up getting 400 million for this, then probably everything is fine.

- You can live, in principle. Find a new one.

- Well, yes, the model is younger. So this is how it is measured. Accordingly, exit is the first path.

IPO, which is considered exactly the same - the second way. He has a stock, now his company has become public, he knows how much the stock is worth and can estimate his labor costs compared to how much he has now become richer. And the third way is an exit on a recoupment, it also implies IPO. Two ways, really.

- Interesting. Returning to this question. Here is Mail.Ru Group, which I have been involved with for a long time, at some point went on an IPO and on the stock exchange so far. As I understand it, Grishin seems to be the chairman of the board of directors, I don’t remember what his position is as a minority shareholder, he has some small percentage of ownership.

- Of course.

- How is the scheme under which this person manages the company? A person who really has such a share, and there are some people who have a huge share, and it’s not they who are in control, but he controls. That is, what's the point?

- Company management consists of two levels. There is a board of directors. The board of directors is the representatives of the owners or the owners themselves. On the board of directors are those who have the largest number of shares. If this is a startup - these will probably be founders, at some point investors join them, because they bought a piece of shares, this is the board of directors. As soon as the company enters an IPO and the shares become freely available, it may well be that some uncle will come and buy a huge piece of shares, thus joining the board of directors. CEO, SRT and so on - these are positions for salary, employees.

- That is what his share is a separate story?

- Yes. In a startup, again, all their own. Founder is also the CEO, he is the owner of the largest number of shares, he is the chairman of the board of directors. IPO - everything has changed, the chairman of the board of directors is the one who has the most shares, it will not necessarily be one of the founders. In the end, the CEO may also not necessarily be one of the founders, because the board of directors may decide that the founder will not do his job well and they want to hire some other person CEO.

- That is, a person can be kicked out of their own business?

- Of course. These three positions - founders, CEOs or someone else, and the board of directors - are three completely unrelated positions that are occupied by the same people in the first stages of a startup. But the more people in this get-together, the more likely that these positions diverge.

- It is interesting that in Russia there is a serious breakthrough in popular culture, when people began to at least understand something about how everything works - this, of course, when the Facebook film “Social Network” was released. Of course, he is a little strange, but then I began to notice that almost my aunt started something there ...

- Well, right now there is a wonderful television show, Silicon Valley, which is a purely documentary film about how Silicon Valley works. On it you can sit and learn how it works, and if you looked ...

- I did not watch, unfortunately.

- In the last series of the second season, the founder of the company was dismissed as CEO.

- Well, it is, in principle, a fool himself. Although it may well sell just.

- This is a comedic TV show, but, in principle, this can certainly be.

The combination of "autonomy, skill, goal" makes open source popular "

- Look, there is still such an interesting phenomenon - the craze for open source. I'll tell you now such an interesting story. Here we are doing a JavaScript conference, we are doing it not only on our own, but also attracted a few people from the community. And these people somehow react very painfully to any external influences. Someone wrote something to them on Twitter, they are already rushing to raise a howl. It is very important for them to open commitors and so on. I honestly say, I have some repositories on GitHub, but most of them are closed, because they are related to some feedback mechanics at conferences, and no one needs them. And the others - a cesspool from the “I will write my JVM” series, sat down, wrote two files, and goodbye.

- Who among us did not sit down to write his JVM? The answer is no one.

- Yes. Or your package manager, or something else. Well, read some article or book ... it's a normal story, yes. At some point, everything got to the point that people quite seriously said "I don’t need to write a test task, let it show me its code on GitHub". What do you think about this story at all? And with Gitkhab, and with open source. Let's talk first of all about people who are doing some kind of open source and are trying to prove something to someone or not. What do you think about this?

- There is a beautiful book “Drive” by Daniel Pink, and she describes very clearly, simply and clearly what motivates people. This book is about why the stick and the gingerbread do not work in any industry other than dull mechanical work, and that it works instead. There are three fundamental factors: the first is autonomy (“autonomy”), the second is mastery (“professionalism”), and the third is the purpose (goal, why we do it). And for developers, open source ideally meets all three conditions.

• Autonomy: I work on this project on my terms, when I want, when it is convenient for me, I make decisions.
• Mastery is code: I write code, I gain experience, I get better at what I do.
• Purpose: the feeling that I do this for a reason, but for something big, good, I create something that will be free later and for people - this is very important.

This combination is what makes open source very popular. Because people want to do good. People want to create something. People want to feel that they are creating something new. Good people who do not get it at work, because they work in some more closed corporation, and not always what they do at work, can we talk, or does it have any particular benefit - these are the people in open source find an outlet for these three urges.

And then some snowball works. When it becomes fashionable, prestigious and at some point obligatory for a good job, because HR says: “Show me your repository on GitHub”.

- You know, here, too, there is a story between "to be" and "to appear." It seems that there is a whole stratum of people who just want to "appear."

- This is because that snowball got a certain speed and a certain size.

- Not everyone can be, but everyone can repository.

- And everyone can seem. If it starts as a pure, sincere desire, as an inner need to respond to these three motivational impulses, then all the rest will begin to join this.

- And there is a motivation and impulse, “All the boys have, but I don’t have - I also have to do it urgently, otherwise I will not be respected.”

- Not. You already think about it. You already think that since all the cool kids have it, then I need it too. And then you think I will most likely be asked about this in the next interview. And I cannot open it the day before, they will look at the dates, it’s necessary that there are commits. Then you have a completely different motivation for this. But the original motivation is there. It is good, clean, it is where Wikipedia went from, strictly speaking. When people spend their time to write articles in the free encyclopedia. This is it.

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- At the end of January I was on FOSDEM and wandered around the stands. There were many companies that I did not know. Make their own Linux distributions, IDE, frameworks for anything, analogues of Confluence. People stand on the stand, the largest conference, 8 thousand people. And I came up with one question. If they have Linux, I say: “How are you better than Ubuntu?” - they can't answer. I come to the IDE, I say: “What are you better than Eclipse or IDEA?” - they cannot say anything. I come to the wiki, saying: “What are you better than Confluence?” - mooing. It seems that people do not understand why they stand here with a stand. They can not answer the basic question, than they are better than competitors. Let's do an experiment. Please name Baruch, the two main competitors of the Artifactory.

- Docker Trusted Registry and Sonatype Nexus.

- How are you better than them?

“We are better than the Docker Trusted Registry, because we do not only docker.” We have a one-stop solution: in one product you can do Docker, and what you wrap up in this Docker: Java, Javascript, .NET, RPM packages, Debian packages, whatever. You have one platform on which you can not only store everything (respectively, less management), but also, and most importantly, build a metadata that tells you what depends on what and where it goes. If you now have a Docker image, you can use its metadata to track that commit in Java code, in JAR, which is wrapped in a WAR, which is wrapped in a debian package, which is wrapped in this Docker.

- “In the house that Jack built.”

- And all this you can track, because you use one tool. If you take the Docker Trusted Registry, then you definitely need something else.

- Welcome, and what about Sonatype?

- First, if you appreciate the advantages of a universal approach, then they have 6 types of package managers in the product, and we have 16. Accordingly, you have more opportunities to do more development on one platform. Secondly, we have a more technically correct solution. We have Checksum-based storage, which allows us to make the platform more flexible. All our solutions work better, because they are not tied to this Maven-based, which is nailed in Nexus, because it grew out of it. We have a completely different pricing model, for example ...

- Well, I realized that you know how to answer this question. Now come on a show! Tell me two things Sonatype is better than you.

“They currently have a much better database of security vulnerabilities than the one we have in XRay.” And I, frankly, hope that at some point we will be able to use this base for analyzing components in XRay. Their base is really good.

- Give me something else.

- They are open source, their open source Nexus is much more functional than open source Artifactory. If to compare two open-source, then open-source Nexus is better.

- Here, I expect about the same from any person who works in marketing. Sorry for this little experiment.

- Sure, not a problem.

- Yes, and you, too, slightly advertised this, agree.

- No complaints!

- This is one of the most important things - an understanding of who your competitors are, an understanding of how you are better than them and an understanding of what they are better than you. Anyone who normally does marketing should know and understand this well.

- You explain why this is happening?

- Yes. I want to understand why you know this, but they do not know. And go with a stand.

“Well, because the way event marketing works in certain companies: there is an event manager who, from bizdev, sales, marketing and R & D, says,“ our company should be at 50 conferences, good luck! ”. Event marketing takes contracts, signs with them all that they will be at the expo, they will have booths, then take a list of company employees and say: “I got out of the fog for a month, took out a knife from my pocket, you still need to drive! From sales you go, from R & D you go, from marketing you go. Here is your hotel, here are your flights. Good luck! ” And this is the end of the preparation for the conference.

- And there are people like that: “Eeee ....”

- And there are people like that: “Nafig I need it! I'll go and lose the weekend. What for? And then I will come and I have 100,500 e-mails. For me, this conference is a waste of time. ” The one who sends them there does not explain to them why they go there, what they have to say, how they should behave, and so on. And they themselves do not understand why they are going there and what they should do there. They view it as a business trip that does not bring any benefit, a waste of time, and this is what you feel when you talk to them.

“Your sales team can explain the same way you explain?” If I call JFrog and say: “Guys, who are your competitors? What are you guys better? Guys, how are they better? ”Do they know how?

- Of course, they can, but to a certain technical level.

- Well, of course, while competence is enough.

- They certainly have this pitch.

- That is, they should have it sewn up and scratched, as I understand it.

- Yes, and, moreover, at that moment when they cannot answer, they do not say that they cannot answer. They say, here’s a link, click it and after 5 minutes our solution architect will be in touch with you and technically explain why our HA is more HA than Docker’s. We only know that he is better, and this person will explain to you exactly what.

- Do you teach them? Are you training?

- Well, how else! Now we have recruited 6 people of new sales. They sat and studied for a month for a salary. They did not do anything else, did not respond to emails, did not call, did not keep any accounts.

"For me, the word" marketing "is not abusive"

- A little personal question. You are a man at the crossroads of business and technology. How do you feel now - more like a person about a business for whom technology is a tool, or a person who was once a programmer and who simply said: “Baruch, you need a person who can talk to the community”?

- Look, for me, unlike so many of our colleagues, the word “marketing” is not abusive. I taught marketing, I have a second degree in this field, I love and appreciate good marketing, and I’m probably not ashamed to think that I understand a little bit in this matter. And for me, there has always been and remains a completely fascinating marketing and technology spike. Because it is not often see, one of these two parts is most often made from under the stick. Older techies are forced to do marketing, and some not very advanced marketers in technology are forced to learn basewords that they don’t understand.

So I feel like “autonomy, mastery, purpose”. I feel great in my current state. Of course, there is drift, which throughout my career is moving from technology to marketing - management, bizdev, and so on. I am somewhere on this scale and try to somehow resist myself by forcing myself to learn new things. I go out on stage with Cyril, despite the fact that his knowledge is much more advanced. This is my way to keep up with technology. I force myself to write some code, despite the fact that no one needs it, to read some books not only on psychology, marketing, bizdev, but also on technologies too. And resist this drift.

But, of course, everything is developing so fast that I feel like it is being smoothly carried away by technology. What am I sitting in a podcast? So I motivate myself.

- About autonomy: please tell me how you choose, where you tell what and when. Is it given to you at the mercy or is there a team that is planning this?

- This is given at the mercy of me, and I gladly collect this team.

- They tell you what you need?

- Yes. Every few months I gather people on whom I can rely not only in terms of ideas, but also in terms of the formulation of these ideas, and I say: “Guys, I need a new report! I looked at our road map, here we have a couple of very interesting solutions, we are now fastening autospeed, I think there are quite interesting technological solutions. Let us figure out how to put this into an interesting report. ” After you do this a sufficient number of times, they begin to come to you themselves. "Baruch, I have a great idea for the report, let's do it." Well, like this.

- Wildly interesting! In parting, we wish your company either to make some kind of fantastic IPO, or a fantastic exit, or just continue to exist as a private company and make billions of dollars.

- All or one of these three will happen!

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Some of the reports of Baruch Sagodur:

• "How to write asynchronous multithreaded HTTP applications"
• "Spring Puzzlers - the Beginning" (with Evgeny Borisov)
• “Groovy Puzzlers - Strange, Incomprehensible and Mommies-a-what-is that ?!” (with Victor Gamow)
• "Epic Groovy Puzzlers - Revenge Brackets" (with Yevgeny Borisov)

In October, on Joker, Baruch together with Viktor Gamov will continue the Groovy Puzzlers series with the third report , and together with Yevgeny Borisov will arrange the Maven and Gradle battle.