Bill Gates and Steve Jobs: D5 Conference, Part 3

The traditional D5 conference in the California town of Carlsbad, 30 miles from San Diego, as usual, gathered leaders from leading high-tech companies. On May 30, conference organizers Cara Swisher and Walt Mossberg conducted a historic interview in which top executives from Microsoft and Apple - Bill Gates and Steve Jobs - participated.
This is the third part of the interview, the first part is read here , the second is here , a video of the interview can be viewed here .


We talked about the radical changes that await your companies.
But we still have the key interface elements are the mouse and icons. You talked about how big a bet it was made in 1984, and how Windows followed. We still follow this approach. I would like to know if he will change.
Touches, ink, speech, sight, all this comes, but they are not a radical substitute. I think that you underestimate the degree of evolution that occurred. You just lived with it year after year. If we transported you ten years ago, then when you returned, you would say: “Wow, a new ideology has appeared - this is a search and tags”. Evolution is a very good thing. In fact, even in the evolutionary process, for example, when we made changes to Office, we were constantly breaking the balance. Specifically, in this case, I'm talking about the "Ribbon" (Ribbon). You always encounter users who say, “Damn it, all the time I have to spend time mastering all these new products.” So there was a very fruitful evolution. But all these things related to the natural interface are revolutionary and will revolutionize the interface further. That's what, along with the three-dimensionality, I talked about.
Steve? I know you are working on something excellent, and we will soon have to see it.
And you can not tell about it.
For sure.
Bill laid out all his secrets to us. You do not tell anything.
I know it's not fair. In fact, I think this is a very simple question. It is about how many truly revolutionary things in the next five years will be made on the PC, and which on the post-PC devices. There is a genuine temptation to focus on post-PC devices, because they are a clean board, and because these devices are more focused, and because they have no legacy of myriad applications running on myriad markets.
Therefore, I think that we are waiting for a colossal revolution related to post-PC devices. The question is how much will be done with the PCs themselves. And I’m sure that Microsoft, like us, is working on really amazing things. But we have to hold on to horses a bit, because we have tens of millions - in our case, and hundreds of millions - of Bill, users who are already used to certain things. They do not need a car with six wheels. They like a car with four wheels. They do not want to steer with the handle, they like the steering wheel.
Therefore, as Bill has already said, in some cases you have to upgrade already existing things, and in other cases you can make fundamental changes. I think a radical rethinking will happen in the world of post-PC devices.
I will ask a more personal question. Literally in a minute we will allow the audience to ask questions. What was greatest - I will not remember the famous moment with Barbara Walters and ask what tree you would like to be, but ...
Let me say that she would like to be Barbara Walters.
No, I would not want to. What was the biggest misunderstanding ...
Call
The call, right. Thanks Steve. I want to say that your relationship goes down in history. What was the biggest misunderstanding in your relationship? What could you recall now from a multitude of events?
We have kept our wedding a secret for more than ten years now.
Canada. That trip to Canada.
[Laughter and applause]
I don't think any of us have any reason to complain. And I know that projects such as the Mack project were simply amazingly interesting, and we had to take risks. In that video, we look much younger.
For sure.
At first you look 12 years old.
So I try to look now.
He was twelve.
I enjoyed working together. I really miss some of those people. You know, in our industry, people come and go. It is wonderful when there is someone who was from the very beginning and is in the context of everything that happened. The industry is going crazy about something new, you know that a successful company must move all the time and all that. It is very great when there are people who have already experienced many such waves, and yet, when it's worth it, they find the strength to take risks and bring in something new.
One last question, and we will give the microphone to the audience.
No, he has not answered us yet ...
I apologize?
I have not answered yet.
Oh, excuse me.
He only talked about his secret wedding, so ...
Ah, I thought that was the answer.
No, that was not my answer. You know, when Bill and I first met and worked together on those old days, we were both the youngest guys in the room. Each one by one or together. I'm about six months older, but, in general, we are the same age. And now, when we work in our respected companies, I don’t know how about you, but I am usually the oldest of all in the same room. That's why I'm happy to be here.
Glad to bring you this happiness. Very glad.
And, you know, I think of most things in life as a Bob Dylan song or the Beatles, and in one of the Beatles songs there is a line: “Our memories are longer with you than the road ahead.” And it is exactly in this case.
Oh, lovely.
You know what? I think that here we should put an end to you. Let's stop.
Oh, I shed a tear right now.
Thank.
Thank you very much.
[Applause]
Wow. Good. Now questions from the audience, please
Questions Can I have more light? Roger.
Roger : Roger McNami of Elevation Partners. Guys, that was awesome. Thank you very much. We will have big elections next year. I would like to know if there are any issues that are visible to you from your Silicon Valley, about which we should concentrate and effectively interact with the next president of the United States. That is, some common platform that we all share. Because, oddly enough, as if you have not heard some things that are now being said everywhere, and I wonder what you think about all this.
Bill?
Well, I, of course, would put the first number on this list education.
Roger : Are there any technological solutions that could do something in this area, or ...
Not. The technology is providing more and more assistance, but the ways to evaluate teachers, their improvement, the structure of schools, their expectations, all this does not boil down to bare technology. It is rather a question of what can be changed in the very structure of these institutions. There should be a broad discussion of the various paths in education.
Steve?
Guys, we have quite big problems, and I believe that most of them are too serious for Silicon Valley to solve them. Hope some of them will be allowed. I think we underestimate how much our industry depends on stability. We are experiencing a very long period of stability, and therefore we could focus on our technologies and grow our businesses, and we took it for granted.
One of the most interesting areas is our energy dependence. And there can be done a lot. I know about a lot of investments in this area. I don’t know if there are already results, but there are big investments in alternative forms of energy and, perhaps, Silicon Valley will play its modest role here.
Are you investing in this area in person or ...
Partly.
What could be a lot.
Billion-another.
Steve, are you investing in this area?
Not.
Only Prius, and everything?
Yes, I just appreciate it.
You please
Don : Hi. Don Eklund, Sony Pictures. My question is, where is too much diversity? During the discussion, it was already said that microprocessors are now very inexpensive, memory, too, software is abundant. But my life has become better due to the emergence of standards - programming standards, network standards. And it seems to me that diversity has reached the point when it prevents the creation of integrating devices that everyone could appreciate. And whether it will turn, as in the case of health care and public transport, into a genie, which you can’t drive back to the bottle? I would like to know your vision of this, is there still the possibility of creating integrating devices that could really simplify and enrich the lives of people.
Steve?
Well, I think Bill and I will agree here. No, I suppose it is very difficult to limit imagination and innovation. I think that new, wonderful inventions will appear constantly. And I think that this is what we have to put up with in order to get these innovations. We put up with the fact that innovation exacerbates this diversity.
And I think that the market is very well able to allow diversity where it is appropriate, and get rid of it where it is not needed.
And again to allow there a variety some time later.
Yes. Yes. I mean standards and everything. Internet standards, video formats and similar things have a powerful impact. And so I do not see what can actually be in the way of the creation of integrating devices. Of course, you know that there are many different approaches to wireless communication, but all this is in a very healthy state. Each of them has its advantages. Some will eventually devour others. I think that the industry has learned very well to develop and adhere to standards where innovation has more or less ended, and to focus on areas for which it is not yet clear which approach will be the best.
Jesse?
Jesse : Hi. I'm Jesse Kornblat, HeadButler.com. Since you are no longer the youngest guys in this room, it may be appropriate to ask each of you about your heritage. Bill, even your fiercest critics admit that your philanthropic activity has a stunning, planetary character, and perhaps if you go further in this direction, you will overshadow everything that you have done at Microsoft.
[Applause]
If you chose heritage, what would you choose? And you, Steve, do you look at Bill and think: “How happy is this guy that he has such a talented company that he shouldn’t personally go there every day, would I like to have that opportunity?”
OK. He is not going to answer anyway.
Bill?
Well, the most important work in which I managed to take part, whatever I did there at different times, is a personal computer. When I grew up, I was a teenager, then 20-30 years old, I even postponed my marriage to later times, before I was absorbed in it. This is my life's work. And I am very fortunate that some of my skills and resources, but I will put skills first, which I developed in the process of this work, can now be turned to the benefit of people who do not have access to technology, including medicine. So having two such things in life is just a blessing. But if you look into my head, it is all filled with programs, magic programs and faith in them, and this will never change.
So, you asked, I would like not to go to work at Apple every day?
Jessie : No, I asked if you envy Bill that he has this second part of his life ...
Oh no, I think the world ...
You want to do something else.
I think the world was the best place, because Bill realized that his goal was not to be the richest guy in the cemetery, right? This is very good, and he does a lot of good with the help of the money he earned.
I'm sure Bill is like me here. I mean, we are both from the middle class, even from the lower middle class, and I never really cared about the money. And Apple was at first so successful that I was very happy because I didn’t have to worry about money then. Therefore, I could concentrate on work, and later on my family.
And I look at us as the two happiest people on the planet, because we found what we love to do, and we were in the right place at the right time, and we went to work every day, where we met brilliant people for thirty years, and did what we love to do.
And so it’s harder to be happier. Of course the family and all that. What else can I ask? Therefore, I do not think about my heritage. I just think about getting up every morning and going forward with great people, and creating something that other people will love as much as we do. And if we can do it, that's great.
Yes.
Rob : Thank you, Steve and Bill. Rob Kilton, I'm here with my business partner. We have a media business on the Internet, about a hundred employees. What is the most important advice you would give us so that we could try to create at least something comparable to the values ​​that you created in your great companies.
I think that in fact, perhaps in both cases, correct me, if I am wrong, we were excited not because we saw the economic prospects opening up. Even when we in Microsoft declared “Computer on every desk and in every home” in 1975, we had no idea that we would become a big company. Every time I thought, "Oh God, can we double the size?" Can we manage so many people? Will it still be interesting? And each doubling took place like this: well, this is finally the last time. So the economy has never been in the foreground. We wanted to be ahead in technology, and do interesting things, and attract different people with different skills who would like this job, and ensure that these different people with different skills work together successfully - that was the main challenge for us. I made more mistakes in this area than anywhere else, but in the end some of these teams worked very well together. So this whole story is about people and passion. It is amazing that this business developed in this way.
Yes. You have to really love what you are doing, that’s quite right. The reason for this is that it is so hard to do that, without such passion, any sensible person would give up the job. It is really very difficult. And you have to withstand this long period of time. Therefore, if you do not like this work, do not get pleasure from it, you will have to leave it. And in fact this is what happened with the majority. If you look at those who became “successful” in the eyes of society, and those who did not, then very often those who succeeded loved their work, and therefore were willing to endure when it was very difficult for them. And those who didn’t love left it because they are reasonable people. Who will endure all this if he does not truly love it?
So there is a lot of hard work, constant excitement, and if you do not like it, you will fail. So first of all, you must love and have passion.
Secondly, you must be very skillful in finding talent, because no matter how capable you are, you need a team of outstanding people, and you must evaluate people very quickly, make decisions about unfamiliar people, hire them and constantly hone your intuition, to build an organization that can ultimately build itself, because you need wonderful people around you.
Liz.
Liz : Liz Bayer. My question is dictated by historical curiosity. You have come to the same opportunity in completely different ways. When you think about how you do business, what would each of you want to learn from the other?
I would give a lot to have a taste for Steve. [Laugh]. It has a natural taste - and this is not a joke at all. I speak about intuitive taste in relation to people and products. When we were engaged in the choice of products for Mac, and it was about choosing the software and how best to do these or other things, I considered all this from the point of view of an engineer, because this is how my head is arranged. And I saw that Steve makes decisions based on his instincts on people and products, and I even find it difficult to explain what I saw. He makes things completely different, it gives away magic.
Woz and I launched a company that made a whole product, so it was not very easy for us to enter into partnership with others. In fact, Microsoft is one of the few companies we have been able to work with. Bill and Microsoft didn’t make a one-piece product, so they were really good at interacting with others. Apple , , . , Apple .
You are welcome.
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