How to discuss money at the interview, if you hire someone and a little about working with people
Friends, thanks for the comments on the article “How to discuss money at the interview: a negotiation strategy for the applicant” . During the break between the trainings, we managed to catch Dmitry Kotkin, the head of our negotiation programs, so that he would highlight the discussion of money at the interview with the employer:
Honestly, I have not met before the reception “Inclusion in the life of the company” except as a tour of the company. But the idea, IMHO, is interesting. In any case, we will be grateful for your feedback.
')
And under the cut answers to questions in the articles about the discussion of money + a small reflection on why there is a sense of injustice in salary revisions.
This rather typical story can be illustrated by the following diagram. To build it, we need to introduce two variables (measured in parrots unknown to science):
We can argue that with some error at the time of admission to work, these things coincide. The manager gives the person a job offer (ofer), where it is written: “Dear friend, we value you here for so much money.” The employee thinks for a while and then signs: “I agree!”
What happens next? Further work begins. A person does something well, the manager thinks: “Well done!” And then one day the employee doesn’t do what he promised. For example, he doesn’t run three tests.
The manager thinks: “This is a bad person, he promised - and did not!” And puts the employee in minus karma. The employee himself thinks about something too ... What exactly? “Well, the tests did not drive away, ZATO helped colleagues with build!” That is, it puts itself a plus in karma.
Have you noticed that we evaluate our own mistakes and those of other people a little differently? If we are late somewhere, then rarely do we say to ourselves: this is because I am not a mandatory and not punctual person. Usually blamed are traffic jams, gray metro lines and other circumstances.
If someone is late for us (especially for an interview), we immediately draw a conclusion about the character of the person: it is not obligatory and does not respect the time of other people at all. Therefore, the fact that the employee and the manager differ in the behavior of the employee is not particularly surprising.
Further the employee brings some idea. And he thinks to himself: “Well, the idea brought sensible.” The manager at this moment thinks: “I’d rather drive the tests, I would work better”.
Somewhere their opinions will go in one direction, somewhere they will disperse again. Something will be announced, something will remain in the head of the manager.
And here they are found in six months or a year at the time of the salary revision:
And the manager announces his decision: “According to the results of the work, we decided to give you X money.” What feeling does the employee have at that moment? It depends on the gap between X and Y, but if it is a big gap, it will be a feeling of unfairness.
Injustice arises when WAITS are at variance with REALITY.
Once again: injustice is born as a result of the divergence of expectations and reality. (By the way, this is why the basic rule of formal certification in large companies is that a person’s assessment cannot be unexpected for him.)
Interestingly, this diagram is exactly the reverse. At the time of the actions of the company’s management and the manager himself, the staff thinks about management. And managers think about themselves too. And they can think both in one direction, and in very different ones.
What causes this gap? To what Robert Sutton very faithfully characterized: “People come to work in a company, and they leave a specific manager.”
Which of all this we can draw conclusions?
“What I need to do to grow up to ...” is about that. This is just one of the clarifications of expectations. The rules of the game would be good to know at the very beginning. And if no one in the company knows, then this is a good point to formulate and harmonize them.
When was the last time you asked your supervisor what he thought about your work? You can hope that if something goes wrong, he will come and say. But hope is not the most sustainable plan.
Meet and talk. In the entire history of our trainings there was exactly one case when a person received a hard negative at such a meeting. He immediately quit. And well, that talked. Otherwise, he could waste his time, energy, and energy.
We constantly conduct research - 80% of managers do not communicate regularly with their employees one-on-one. Many occur every six months or once every three months.
Listen, in six months too much can happen to a person. He may be interested in work, and he can be sick of it. A man can marry and divorce. He may not agree with the organizational changes, and sincerely do not understand why we needed these new idiotic reports.
Too many factors that we do not see can affect the performance, the motivation of a person, the pleasure that he gets from work. We look at the person through the door peephole of plans, the crack of the version control system and the jee window, trying to form an opinion about the person using them.
(If the specifics are interesting, then quite well, it seems to us, we managed to highlight the tools for 1: 1 meetings in the free video course “Management Tools” (available for registration))
Many pleasant things follow from this, such as:
In addition, you understand what to expect from anyone and can plan your actions, communications, and expectations. At the new work many things will be reset. For what, for money? Shouldn't you first discuss comparable money at your place of work, while maintaining your reputation and credibility?
This is not an obligation “let me work 2 times more”. And this is not about the amount of work. This is about the type of work. Maybe (and most likely), a person in another position earns this money in your company.
This is the point of discussion. Because if your company cannot earn such money in principle, then no one will force you to work 16 hours a day.
Make a 1: 1 meeting with the boss and prepare the FACTS and DATA, why do you think that you are underestimated. In addition to the facts themselves, consider the impact that your results have on the work of the project, the team and the company.
Good language when talking:
It is not worth waiting for the IMMEDIATE effect of the conversation, because the actions of the boss depend on many circumstances, for example, on the system of salary revision in the company. In addition, he will need to somehow convince the director to part with the money. And for the director, this news will most likely be unexpected. And your boss will need time to pick up the arguments. What is worth the wait? It is worth waiting for from the chief of SPECIFIC promises about his actions.
At the beginning of my business coach career, I spoke wherever I was invited. It is now we started to sort out the grues, because the number of invitations exceeded the limit on available time. And then I was glad to any invitation, even to speak for free at the meeting of the community of testers of the right buttons of the city of Stary Oskol. Because I told people useful things and knew that sooner or later, it will come back - people grow, they have new opportunities.
If you currently have no job offers, and there is no certainty that you will easily get it, go to any meeting. Even if people like you, but they cannot offer you money that suits you now, they will remember you. And they will call when they have the money. Or invited with consulting, which is also not bad.
If now you have suggestions, or you have a firm confidence in your own value, then a good wording will be IMHO: “Frankly, I now have several invitations for interviews, and I have to set priorities in time. Could you briefly describe the responsibilities and salary framework for this position? ”
This is a normal wording, because with it you EXPLAIN WHY you start talking about money.
At one of the trainings, we were somehow asked: “What questions should not be asked to the customer?” This question warmed my brain. I never thought about it before. And then, it seems to me, I found the answer. You can not ask a question if you can not explain why you ask him.
So here: “I have several invitations for interviews, and I have to set priorities in time”. The question should have a reason why you are asking. So that a person does not think that you think only about money.
The result was a rather long answer to the questions that caught my eye in posts about discussing money:
Someone will say that the answers are partly not about that, and we really went into the topic of working with people. But perhaps this is not by chance, because, in our opinion, all these issues are too closely interconnected. Hopefully, all these thoughts were useful and allowed us to draw the right conclusions about our reality. In any case, success and we welcome your feedback!
PS Friends. TOMORROW we are releasing our new product for negotiations “Negotiator Handbook”. The last three articles were written at the very moment of its creation. We invite everyone who wants to deal with the topic of negotiations in the form of pre-registration (which gives additional bonuses and special conditions for participation.)
Honestly, I have not met before the reception “Inclusion in the life of the company” except as a tour of the company. But the idea, IMHO, is interesting. In any case, we will be grateful for your feedback.
')
And under the cut answers to questions in the articles about the discussion of money + a small reflection on why there is a sense of injustice in salary revisions.
Case of life. At one of my first jobs, somehow the opportunity arose to raise salaries to employees. The company was in that stage of maturity, when the salary is reviewed by Lenin's squint method (you squint so that you see how much to raise).
And here I am (an experienced manager, already a year now!) I estimated about whom to raise by $ 200, to whom by $ 100. He painted everything, gave it to the director and returned to work, pleased with himself.
Finally, the day came when everyone was paid new wages. And this day was a very good lesson for me. Because right from the morning Pasha broke into my office. Pasha asked a question for which I was not very ready:
- Sash, why did everyone raise their salaries by $ 200, and me by $ 100.
- Pash, firstly, not everyone is $ 200, and secondly, why should you raise your salary by $ 200? You haven't shown any miracles in writing tests for the last six months.
- How for what ?! Last month I hung on the phone with the customer, solved his problems on the XYZ project, helped my colleagues from there to run our tests ...
We began to understand ... After a short time, I realized that I simply did not see so many tasks for Pasha. And it would be okay, they should have been in the plan, so no ... What, in general, it is not surprising when your team is under 20 people, you try to manage everything, plus you have a huge management experience in one year.
It's good that Pasha came, we figured out everything, and restored justice. But he could not have come. And then, suddenly, suddenly, I would have lost a good engineer, who would have justly started to tell everyone around me, who I am not a very good manager.
This rather typical story can be illustrated by the following diagram. To build it, we need to introduce two variables (measured in parrots unknown to science):
- Waiting for an employee, how the manager should evaluate him
- Real score by employee manager
How are employee expectations and manager's scores
We can argue that with some error at the time of admission to work, these things coincide. The manager gives the person a job offer (ofer), where it is written: “Dear friend, we value you here for so much money.” The employee thinks for a while and then signs: “I agree!”
What happens next? Further work begins. A person does something well, the manager thinks: “Well done!” And then one day the employee doesn’t do what he promised. For example, he doesn’t run three tests.
The manager thinks: “This is a bad person, he promised - and did not!” And puts the employee in minus karma. The employee himself thinks about something too ... What exactly? “Well, the tests did not drive away, ZATO helped colleagues with build!” That is, it puts itself a plus in karma.
Have you noticed that we evaluate our own mistakes and those of other people a little differently? If we are late somewhere, then rarely do we say to ourselves: this is because I am not a mandatory and not punctual person. Usually blamed are traffic jams, gray metro lines and other circumstances.
If someone is late for us (especially for an interview), we immediately draw a conclusion about the character of the person: it is not obligatory and does not respect the time of other people at all. Therefore, the fact that the employee and the manager differ in the behavior of the employee is not particularly surprising.
Further the employee brings some idea. And he thinks to himself: “Well, the idea brought sensible.” The manager at this moment thinks: “I’d rather drive the tests, I would work better”.
Somewhere their opinions will go in one direction, somewhere they will disperse again. Something will be announced, something will remain in the head of the manager.
And here they are found in six months or a year at the time of the salary revision:
And the manager announces his decision: “According to the results of the work, we decided to give you X money.” What feeling does the employee have at that moment? It depends on the gap between X and Y, but if it is a big gap, it will be a feeling of unfairness.
Injustice arises when WAITS are at variance with REALITY.
Case of life. One familiar director of the company once shared such a story (further from the first person). A year and a half ago, I hired a new engineer. The man turned out to be cool! Immediately fit into the team, immediately began to burn! I had such a thing for the first time, it was really cool!
A couple of months later it was time to pay annual bonuses. I shove all three bucks in envelopes and think: how much to give to a person? One side. he worked only two months ... On the other hand, the man really burns. Give, I think, I will do him well - in short, I also put three to him. I give a man an envelope - he was terribly happy ...
It takes a year. I give out all the envelopes with three pieces. I give this engineer an envelope, he looks in there and is so disappointed:
- Why so little?
- Why a little?
- Well, then ... Then I worked for two months, and there were three pieces, and now I have worked for 12 months, and again three pieces ... Where is the justice ?!
“So I just wanted to encourage you then ...”
- I see ... It seems that the purchase of a cottage will have to be postponed ...
How the man explained it to his wife - I do not know ...
Once again: injustice is born as a result of the divergence of expectations and reality. (By the way, this is why the basic rule of formal certification in large companies is that a person’s assessment cannot be unexpected for him.)
Interestingly, this diagram is exactly the reverse. At the time of the actions of the company’s management and the manager himself, the staff thinks about management. And managers think about themselves too. And they can think both in one direction, and in very different ones.
What causes this gap? To what Robert Sutton very faithfully characterized: “People come to work in a company, and they leave a specific manager.”
Which of all this we can draw conclusions?
Conclusion number 1. At the start of work, clarify expectations.
“What I need to do to grow up to ...” is about that. This is just one of the clarifications of expectations. The rules of the game would be good to know at the very beginning. And if no one in the company knows, then this is a good point to formulate and harmonize them.
Conclusion number 2. Communicate with your boss 1: 1 at least once every two weeks.
When was the last time you asked your supervisor what he thought about your work? You can hope that if something goes wrong, he will come and say. But hope is not the most sustainable plan.
Meet and talk. In the entire history of our trainings there was exactly one case when a person received a hard negative at such a meeting. He immediately quit. And well, that talked. Otherwise, he could waste his time, energy, and energy.
3. If you manage someone, communicate with your employees 1: 1 at least once every two weeks.
We constantly conduct research - 80% of managers do not communicate regularly with their employees one-on-one. Many occur every six months or once every three months.
Listen, in six months too much can happen to a person. He may be interested in work, and he can be sick of it. A man can marry and divorce. He may not agree with the organizational changes, and sincerely do not understand why we needed these new idiotic reports.
Too many factors that we do not see can affect the performance, the motivation of a person, the pleasure that he gets from work. We look at the person through the door peephole of plans, the crack of the version control system and the jee window, trying to form an opinion about the person using them.
(If the specifics are interesting, then quite well, it seems to us, we managed to highlight the tools for 1: 1 meetings in the free video course “Management Tools” (available for registration))
4. If you are doing your job well, then the current job already has at least two advantages over the new one.
- Reputation in the eyes of management
- Authority in the eyes of colleagues
Many pleasant things follow from this, such as:
- You need to spend less energy convincing people in your ideas.
- Less control applied to you
- Less conflicts occur
In addition, you understand what to expect from anyone and can plan your actions, communications, and expectations. At the new work many things will be reset. For what, for money? Shouldn't you first discuss comparable money at your place of work, while maintaining your reputation and credibility?
5. “Is it possible to do something in our company to earn such money?” Is just a question.
This is not an obligation “let me work 2 times more”. And this is not about the amount of work. This is about the type of work. Maybe (and most likely), a person in another position earns this money in your company.
This is the point of discussion. Because if your company cannot earn such money in principle, then no one will force you to work 16 hours a day.
6. If you now have the feeling that you are underestimated - discuss it.
Make a 1: 1 meeting with the boss and prepare the FACTS and DATA, why do you think that you are underestimated. In addition to the facts themselves, consider the impact that your results have on the work of the project, the team and the company.
Good language when talking:
- “I now have the feeling that my work is undervalued. Not in terms of what I'm going to leave, but this feeling, honestly - affects the work. Therefore, I came to discuss. ”
- “Perhaps not all my work is visible, let me tell you what was being done ...”
- “I understand that salary revision is not an easy topic, but what do you think about this?”
It is not worth waiting for the IMMEDIATE effect of the conversation, because the actions of the boss depend on many circumstances, for example, on the system of salary revision in the company. In addition, he will need to somehow convince the director to part with the money. And for the director, this news will most likely be unexpected. And your boss will need time to pick up the arguments. What is worth the wait? It is worth waiting for from the chief of SPECIFIC promises about his actions.
7. Regarding the discussion of money at the beginning of the interview or before the interview - it all depends on the demand.
At the beginning of my business coach career, I spoke wherever I was invited. It is now we started to sort out the grues, because the number of invitations exceeded the limit on available time. And then I was glad to any invitation, even to speak for free at the meeting of the community of testers of the right buttons of the city of Stary Oskol. Because I told people useful things and knew that sooner or later, it will come back - people grow, they have new opportunities.
If you currently have no job offers, and there is no certainty that you will easily get it, go to any meeting. Even if people like you, but they cannot offer you money that suits you now, they will remember you. And they will call when they have the money. Or invited with consulting, which is also not bad.
If now you have suggestions, or you have a firm confidence in your own value, then a good wording will be IMHO: “Frankly, I now have several invitations for interviews, and I have to set priorities in time. Could you briefly describe the responsibilities and salary framework for this position? ”
This is a normal wording, because with it you EXPLAIN WHY you start talking about money.
At one of the trainings, we were somehow asked: “What questions should not be asked to the customer?” This question warmed my brain. I never thought about it before. And then, it seems to me, I found the answer. You can not ask a question if you can not explain why you ask him.
So here: “I have several invitations for interviews, and I have to set priorities in time”. The question should have a reason why you are asking. So that a person does not think that you think only about money.
Instead of conclusion
The result was a rather long answer to the questions that caught my eye in posts about discussing money:
- How to discuss money with management or why sometimes careers stop?
- How to discuss money at the interview: the negotiation strategy for the applicant
Someone will say that the answers are partly not about that, and we really went into the topic of working with people. But perhaps this is not by chance, because, in our opinion, all these issues are too closely interconnected. Hopefully, all these thoughts were useful and allowed us to draw the right conclusions about our reality. In any case, success and we welcome your feedback!
PS Friends. TOMORROW we are releasing our new product for negotiations “Negotiator Handbook”. The last three articles were written at the very moment of its creation. We invite everyone who wants to deal with the topic of negotiations in the form of pre-registration (which gives additional bonuses and special conditions for participation.)
Source: https://habr.com/ru/post/230495/
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