Interview with Denis Sazhin

The second interview from the cycle "The scope of creating sites from the inside." Denis Sazhin , icon designer and creator of Ikon.ru studio, answers questions .


Denis reveals the process of creating icons, talks about his experience of working with foreign and Russian customers. Also from the interview you will learn where to begin the path of the icon designer, how to come up with an idea and find a common style.
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Denis Sazhin , icon designer, creator of Ikon.ru studio

Career began with programming. Having worked for four years, I realized that either I remain an average programmer, or I start doing what I want, even if it is almost from scratch. After that, he went into designers, changed several works, until, finally, he came to what is now.

Interview

Is icon.ru a company or just a union of colleagues?

Are you interested in legal status, relations with tax authorities, the presence of a director's office, secretary and coffee machine, customer base or development directions for the next five years? :)

There is status, there is a relationship, there is no director's office, there is no secretary, there is a coffee machine, but my personal base is there, there is also a direction.

But for the secretary should not be afraid, it will appear along with the official coffee machine, as soon as the expediency of both of them is visible.

Who else works with you?

So to say, there are two “permanent” partners: Ekaterina Prokofieva and me.

At the same time, we are constantly looking for new people: we tried to work with someone and did not work, we continue with someone . So the total number of designers is changeable, 3-5 people.

Is there a feeling of strong competition in the field of creating icons or is it still not an established market?

There is competition, of course, but I cannot call it particularly strong yet. At least, we do not have to make additional efforts to find customers: there is enough quality work and a live site.

In addition, companies engaged in icons in Russia, one way or another, differ in their niches: price, quality, style, etc. This may not be immediately noticeable to the naked eye, but the customer who knows what he wants is Sees and is already initially leaning towards this or that artist.

So there is competition. Hard rubilov - I do not notice.

Is it possible in Russia to deal only with icons and at the same time ensure a decent life for yourself?

Yes, you can do anything, if you know how to do it well, and if someone needs it. And at the same time to ensure a decent life.

Although it is easier for me in this regard, since my needs were somehow always in harmony with my income. But if you start working on icons, setting yourself the goal of buying a Bentley in a month, then you may be slightly disappointed.

Which customers have to work more: from abroad or from Russia? To what extent do those and others know what they want, and are ready to pay for it worthily?

We have to work with everyone. Approximately equally.

The main difference is this:

A foreign (American, European) customer generally perceives the icon as a tool.

The Russian customer still often perceives the icon as a little, pretty little picture.

From here and dance. A foreign customer usually knows what he wants, how much, why and where. He very rarely gives a waiver because of the cost, because he has already calculated everything. He considered that, having spent such a sum on this instrument now, in the future he will receive from this instrument such a sum that is both rounder and prettier.

The Russian customer, it happens, comes with the words "here we have a model, but it is boring, I would like some icons." In short, "decorate the Christmas tree." And quite often, when he heard the cost of Christmas-tree toys, he says, “um ... a little expensive. Perhaps another time. ”

Differences can be seen in the results of work for those and for others. "Russian" icons are more elegant, and "foreign" - more vivid.

The whole process, of course, is dynamic and these differences are gradually smoothed out.

What is the typical process of creating an icon from the moment the order is received, and which specialists should participate in it?

1. The first specialist must extract information from the customer. What he wants, how he sees it, why he needs it, where it will be and so on. Let's call this specialist investigator.
2. The second specialist should take all the information drawn out by the first expert, put it in front of him, analyze and say: for this project, the icon must be of such and such size, of such and such kind, made in such and such style. Let's call this specialist - analyzer.
3. The third expert should sit down and give a number of ideas and metaphors for the icon being developed, and choose the most appropriate one. Let's call this specialist thinker.
4. The fourth expert should draw sketches of the chosen idea, and then draw the icon itself. Let him be called a designer.
5. And, of course, you need a specialist who will rush all this time between all other specialists and the customer and coordinate everything that happens.

One adult well-fed person can accommodate up to three specialists, by the way.

Thinking up an idea is the most difficult stage?

Not necessary. There are projects in which ideas are quite transparent from the very beginning, and here the main thing is to stop in time and not be too smart.

And the most difficult step may be to coordinate the result with the customer. There is generally difficult to predict.

How many hours or days an icon is created?

The most common question. Never know what to answer.

“An icon is being created” - what is it and how? Is this subject to inventing, discussing, discarding options, coordinating sketches, drawing, adjustments? And if the icon has six different sizes, the smallest is 16 × 16, and the largest is 512 × 512, and each of them needs to be built, polished and coordinated with the customer - is this also considered?

In general, from half an hour to several months.

In the icons of new operating systems there is no place for symbolism and simple forms, such icons are finally a thing of the past?

Of course not. An icon is primarily a function. Already on top of this, all kinds of ruffles, which are dictated by fashion, the audience, are attached to it, as a result, by merchantability, etc. Of course, the average consumer “meets clothes,” including the operating system.

However, when the fire siren screams, he would prefer a large, simple arrow with a symbolic little man to the bulges, highlights and shadows, which will tell him where to run.

Creating icons can occur in isolation from the design of the interface?

Why not. It happens that everything is already there for a long time and it works, and it only needs to “update the skin”.

It happens that you only need to "decorate the Christmas tree." Also, by the way, a worthy task.

It often happens that the interface is generally ready (for example, a site has been developed, which already has a lot of money and money in it), and we are only asked to draw icons for it. Of course, we can make our proposals on the interface, but, remaining within the bounds of reality, we understand that no one is going to redo this colossus, all this has been agreed and approved in ten instances.

What tools do you use to create icons?

The second most common question. It also sometimes sounds "what program is this icon made in?". I considered, I consider, and I will consider that everyone chooses the tool for himself, and little depends on the tool in this case. In Photoshop, in Korela, in Illustrator, in Tridemax, at least MSPaint-e , you can make icons anywhere. You can draw on the paper with felt-tip pens.

As for me personally, I use Xara Xtreme. I got used to it, it is convenient for me in it, yes, in general , and everything that can be said here.

Suppose a person has a desire to do icons, which way to go on? How to start learning, where to demonstrate their first work?

Well, he can go to some courses. There are people who, when they want to learn something , go to courses.
He can also buy a smart book. There are people who, when they want to learn something , buy a smart book.

These methods are far enough from me. In my opinion , if a person has a real interest, and there is the Internet, then the first thing he does is type in the search engine “how to draw icons”, then he travels along the links and takes the information out by truck.

Then he types in the search line "community of icon designers" and immediately finds those places where you can show your work and see other people.

In our time, any question Google will answer if you are not too lazy to ask him.

The icon designer is a highly specialized profession, or any other designer can do it, or vice versa, whoever makes icons can, for example, develop a corporate identity or website design?

Specificity, of course, is. At first I was surprised at such a moment: for example, I found a portfolio or gallery of works of some illustrator, where there were both illustrations and icons. Illustrations - wow, blows the roof. Icons are scary like original sin.

Of course, in each area the designer has his own set of knowledge, his own logic, his own rules, his own way of thinking. If the same person can combine several such sets in his head, he can do both.

And the designer, sharpened, for example, only for sites, in most cases, the icons will be mediocre.

Can you recommend books or other educational materials on icon creation?

I can recommend the Internet, the blessed Internet. It has everything, you just have to ask him.

I have, perhaps, a bad trait: I often do not remember the names of books, articles, authors and authorities, if they are not directly interested in me.

If you have not conceived to defend a serious bespectacled dissertation on the topic of interface design, but are interested in the topic for the sake of the topic itself, then start by viewing the sites of those who do these icons. There are almost always educational materials, some articles, some manuals. Read the blog Turbomilka , look at our site Icon.ru.

Lack of training materials is a problem? How can it be solved and who should decide?

Well, again, I repeat - with the presence of an information network covering the whole world, it is a bit strange to talk about the problem of the lack of training materials.

It’s just that people have a certain settled model in their heads: training is when there is a teacher dressed up in glasses and a gray beard with a wedge, and a student who is courteous to him. Education is to buy a pack of books of well-known authorities for yourself and put it on your shelf, let it please the eye with colored roots. This model worked when access to knowledge was limited, when knowledge carriers were only the heads of individual specialists and limited editions of books.

But everything changes. Now training is first and foremost a person’s desire to study, a desire to reach out and take information from which the space is breaking. The main thing, in my opinion , what needs to be taught now is to work with information.

In the studio's blog , you describe the search for a metaphor, can you finally get a set of rules for creating an icon? Or can the rules be only technical, for example, measurement, size, etc.?

No rule makes sense if you do not understand where it came from and what is the logic in it. Another thing is, if a person thought through this logic, understood and accepted, then the next time he doesn’t have to go all the way again, this chain has already formed in his head, he can arrange it for himself, as a rule. But at any moment he will be able to explain or modify this rule for a changed situation.

If we want to create a set of universal rules that can be simply “put on” by any person so that he becomes an icon designer - then no, it will not work.

From a practical point of view, how does the process of finding a common style for a set of icons look like? A palette of colors is compiled, a theme is chosen, metaphors are described that cannot be applied?

First you need to understand the tasks that future icons must solve. This is generally half the battle. If you understand what you want to achieve, then from the whole variety of options, you immediately select that piece in which to rustle.

For example: if you make icons for the payment system, then you immediately realize that your priorities are quick recognition, simplicity and obviousness (otherwise the user will certainly click something wrong, and for some reason users are very vulnerable in monetary matters). Therefore, it is better to use simple symbolic forms, but variants with fabulous creative or elegant ruffs are better to be put off for another time.

Having created an abstract image of an ideal icon in a spherical vacuum, you begin to embed it into reality, to enfold the skeleton, so to speak, to choose the color of the skin, the shape of the eyes and the length of the fur. Reality is usually the context provided by the customer (whether it is a website, or a software product or something else) and the customer himself, who has his own vision of the world, and icons, as part of this world.

Context helps you choose a palette of colors, themes, metaphors, and sizes. Your task here is quite simple - to “listen”, what the environment says and “answer” icons to the question posed.

What are your landmarks and ideals of icons? Maybe it is Apple or Vista icons?

Well, icons in the style of Apple or Vista are difficult to cite as an example, since they are exactly what the designers who created them are. For example, the original Vista icons developed by IconFactory designers and Vista icons that are ultimately included in the system are heaven and earth, this is God's gift and scrambled eggs (everything is in the order of transfer).

Let me not talk about orientations and ideals, since I have no such categories in thought. And also I will not speak about studios and designers respected by me who make very good icons, because I am always afraid not to mention someone .

In order not to be left completely without specifics, my personal charts are headed by Evgeny Buzuk and Anton Gerasimenko .

Icons become dimensionless, what else do you see the most significant trends in the development of this business? What is the icon of the future?

Yes, they will not be dimensionless, it is stupid. Who needs an icon that can not even be seen at a glance, which displaces everything else from the screen?

So far, just the boys measure the size - but I have 256, and I have 512, I have more. Pereboleut gigantism, go crazy.

Another thing, if there will be a qualitative change in the resolution or the principle of display on monitors. But in any case, the point is not the number of pixels, the point is how much information a person is able to capture from one “bite”. The icon should be perceived as a whole, be it 10 pixels, 1000 pixels, two-dimensional, three-dimensional, sixteen-dimensional. You need to work with the quality of information, and not with its quantity.

Read also the previous interview with Olga Aleksashenko .