Interview with Elon Musk. Part 2 - about mass, about Mars and about MBA

This is the second part of an interview with Elon Mask to Elene Levin, columnist for the American Physical Society, APT News. The first part was published yesterday.



Levin : How do you solve the business challenges you face? Does your physical and mathematical education help you to see problems in business from a different angle, or to solve them differently?



Musk : Physics is very helpful, because the mathematics on which businessmen rely is very primitive compared to the mathematical apparatus of physics. I remember how on the course on the analysis of the securities market the teacher explained what matrices are. I was shocked. If you know math enough to do physics, then economic tasks will be solved without effort. Many scientists underestimate themselves in this area. In fact, they know much more than they think. You can simply take and apply the physical method of thinking to almost any problem - these are universal techniques and they work in the world of economics as well as in the world of physics.

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Levin : I also studied mathematics and physics and always consider problems in business as a binary tree, and think through steps 4, 5 or 6 levels ahead. Is this the same for you? Does this study of physics make a mark?



Musk : Yes, in general, I always try to think through future events, I try to predict them. I anticipate a chain of events, then analyze the errors and discrepancies between the prediction and the real course of things and try to minimize these errors. That's how it seems to me. And I also think in terms of probability flows. There is a certain set of outcomes, the probabilities of these outcomes, and I want to be the winner in any case. So, although not always everything happens as you plan, if everything is calculated correctly, you will surely move forward with time.



Levin : So this is your everyday way of thinking?



Musk : Yes, I see the future as branching streams of probabilities.



Levin : Are there any shortcomings in the knowledge of physics for a person in your position and in your industry?



Musk : Definitely not. I can recommend it to everyone. The problem on the contrary is that physics is very poorly taught in schools. A lot of time is spent studying the toolkit, but no answer is given to the question: “What the hell are we being forced to teach?”



Levin : When you hire employees, what qualities and characteristics do you look at first of all, not counting, of course, technical knowledge?



Musk : In SpaceX, we are engaged in the development of rocket technology, and our ultimate goal is to create a self-sufficient settlement on Mars. For this we need people who are able to find innovative solutions for all parts of the rocket. We are primarily looking for evidence of the exceptional abilities of the candidate. Of course, we also look at grades, but there is always an opportunity to deceive the university system, choose the appropriate courses and easily get the highest score. So for us it is often more important than winning at international competitions or competitions. If someone won a national scale science fair, assembled an outstanding device, or wrote outstanding software as a teenager, this indicates outstanding ability, an innovative mindset and initiative. This is the most important thing for us.



Levin : What advice would you give to young physicists, or to those who study physics in case they want to become entrepreneurs?



Musk : Think about what you would very much like to do, and what would benefit people, and then direct your efforts in this direction. In physics itself, only a small number of people move science forward, especially if success depends on large-scale technical projects like the Large Hadron Collider. Even if you do not want to work as a physicist after your studies, such an education is very useful. So I recommend studying physics as a foundation, then go through more diverse applied engineering courses to determine the most interesting direction for you, and not to neglect the arts and humanities, especially history. And it would be nice to study a few economic subjects, at least to navigate in terminology. In principle, one accounting is enough, although I personally can not stand it. Economic disciplines are needed, but not in large quantities. And I do not recommend MBA. MBA degree is not needed, this is a bad idea.



Levin : Why?



Musk : MBA courses are taught completely wrong. They do not teach people to think. And the more prestigious courses, the worse. Because there people are taught to think that they are special, after which they are unable to perceive feedback and analyze their own mistakes impartially.



Levin : But do you have to hire people with an MBA?



Musk : I hire rather in spite of having a degree, and not thanks to him. There are very few people with MBA among the top management of my companies.



Levin : If a random fellow traveler in an airplane asked you who you were by profession, what would you say?



Musk : I am an engineer. Rocket Engineer and Automotive Engineer. Most of the time I do this.



Levin : How much time do you spend solving engineering tasks, and how much are you managing?



Musk : Basically, about sixty percent of my time I work with technical teams. I have several meetings every week with Tesla and SpaceX engineers. However, over the past few months I have spent a lot of time on business tasks related to the reorganization of service and sales in Tesla. Not the most pleasant of occupations, but it was necessary.



Levin : Is there an exchange of technical ideas between your companies?



Musk : Over time, more and more, everything should not go only through me. It is very useful to work at the junction of the aerospace and automotive industries - I see things that are not seen by those who work only in one of them.



Levin : For example?



Musk : A car is a rather primitive device compared to a rocket, because in order to go into orbit, it must be exceptionally efficient in mass. The first stage of the rocket is 95% fuel. On engines, electronics, wiring, frame, and so on, only 5% remains. It is very, very small. Working with rockets, you get used to optimize everything to a gram. And now look at the machines - they are full of excess weight where they are not needed and vice versa, there is not enough strength in other places, and they are made of not the best steel. Tesla Model S - the only car in North America, which is made entirely of aluminum. Since it has a very heavy battery, we have to greatly facilitate everything else. To achieve such a large power reserve, like the Model S, we had to go to the all-aluminum frame and bodywork. There is still a lot that can be optimized, but we first wanted to ensure that the weight of the car was comparable to that of a regular gasoline sedan, despite the heavy battery.



Levin : What do you think when ordinary people can afford space travel, just like ocean cruises right now?



Musk : It depends on what is meant by space travel. Just to rise above the dense layers of the atmosphere is easy - jump out for five minutes and come back, that's all. And in order to go into orbit, you need two orders of magnitude more energy to accelerate, and then you will need to somehow dissipate this energy during deceleration, so it is much more complicated. I think that orbital travels will sooner or later cost, say, one hundred two hundred thousand. Our Holy Grail - a flight to Mars worth less than half a million. This is the threshold at which it will be possible to create a self-sufficient colony on Mars. And another thing: many scientists question the necessity of spending on manned space flights, because they do not see much sense in them. I can agree with them, if we are talking only about flights to near-earth orbit. But, if we want to become a real space civilization, and, as a biological species, spread across many planets, it is precisely manned flights that are most important. Because it greatly increases the expected duration of human existence, as well as its scope and scale, which will lead to new breakthroughs in physics and other fields.



Levin : The future belongs to physicists?



Musk : (laughs) Certainly!