Interview with Herman Klimenko

Michael: Let me shake your hand. Herman, when preparing for the program, one of my friends asked me: “How does he do everything?” How do you do everything? So many activities: projects offline, online.
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Herman: Yes, you know, I will say, probably, a very banal thing, which for some reason, few say. All this thanks to the employees, all thanks to those people who do something, because if I didn’t trust them, and they wouldn’t accept this delegation, I would now (if I go back to the very beginning) did what the first money - typing. In "Hand in Hand" I gave ads that I was typing, so I would do it. The fact is that if you do not learn to trust ... Reassignment is always scary, you lose control of the product, you lose control of quality. And the main task is to find people who will work for you, and you will inspire them. After all, the authorities are the main task? - inspire, describe the prospects and on time, carefully pay the salary.

If we cope with it, then we can start a new business, we can start new projects. Yes, people are wrong. It is always painful. It is always easier to lose oneself than to let one lose. Many people break down on this and remain in the framework of small companies, because it’s just really scary to trust a person. When a child starts walking with us, we let it go once, right? Therefore, when your deputy begins to rush forward, let him go, let him strive, let him do his goals, do his tasks. Yes, it is somewhere, but, nevertheless, when you know where it mows, everything will be fine with you.

Mikhail: This is a large number of spheres in which you work, maybe, it is connected just with a certain fear that if it does not succeed here, here or here it is messed up, the other will work? Such a positive from waiting.

Hermann: No, I guess. Here, from the series, first of all, life was like this, that is, I really wanted to eat. And at that moment, where it ate, there it ate. And fortunately, historically it turned out that when the Internet did not make money, it dragged out audits and banks (I was still the director of the berth), that is, I did a lot of things when banking and financial became normal profits, started shooting from the Internet and Telecom very well . Now, thanks to some interconnection, in general, the effect is very good.

Mikhail: I read that you acquired land in the Tula region.

Hermann: Yes.

Michael: And they intend to build a residence there for ...

Hermann: We are already at the stage of completion, of course, before the residence, I’ll say, I’m not a Yandex, which, with a capitalization of billions, I’m still smaller.

Mikhail: I mean, they often do this, and you want to place there your programmers who develop projects.

Hermann: Yes.

Mikhail: Revolving in some information circles, you understand that it is often done so often to create a new project. For example, someone in Thailand takes out to Phuket. 3-4 companies know exactly who are sitting there. Does this mean that you are also working on some interesting new project?

Hermann: Absolutely not, more precisely, I always work on something new, there is always an excess of ideas, right here ... They need to learn how to kill in general. No, it is very simple, it is a normal valuation program. That is, we have to spend money on the fact that ... a tough enough competition, it is important enough for people ... People value not only money, people value comfort, respect at work. And you know, for example, in my company there is a section where there are girls, and programmers rarely meet girls. I have an audit firm there, where girls become pregnant and return. We pay them wages all the time just from the company. That is, we can say that we are so good. In fact, of course, we are never good - it is profitable. Taking care of people is actually beneficial, because otherwise you will have a rotation of personnel. A staff rotation is the worst thing that can be in a company. And the cost of attracting new people is not so scary. In the end, my programmer will leave - for a start, this is some money, but I can always find a new one, even for the same, comparable, or plus or minus, but the problem is that part of the culture goes away. We need to establish some new relations with the newcomer, they will be triggered over the years. Therefore, it is easier to spend money on ... let's call it a social program, on some social programs, so that your people would not even really think to leave. And I am very proud that my programmers have been working for 10-15 years, the driver has been working for me for 20 years, as it turned out. And somehow you take it sometimes the first time. This is generally more related to the issue of personnel management, but in general, nothing but concern for people (forced or peculiar to me in the soul - it doesn’t matter for what reason, maybe I’m just so kind or I’m just forced to do it), this is solely concern about people Now, at least, the guys come there periodically, I myself come there already, and someone is cooking, someone is cleaning. That is, this is no cost, in fact, by Moscow standards, I spend more on the office.

Mikhail: Now, what are you concentrating on, if this is a new, some large, large project, how do you say?

Hermann: All Internet, Internet, now Internet.

Michael: We understand that the Internet. At least in what direction?

Herman: You see, for example, why are we talking here? Because you think that I am a successful manager. What is the difference between successful and unsuccessful? Do you know what?

Michael: What?

Hermann: In general, the percentage of loss is the same. Suppose we take some (someone said) the truth that out of 10 projects, 9 are dying. In fact, both successful and unsuccessful have the same percentage. The only difference is that a successful unsuccessful projects that destroyed (we all destroy our projects), neatly out of the house at night, goes outside the yard and quietly bury. And the one who is considered unsuccessful, they all produce it very publicly. Still, people remember: but remember, he launched a major social network? And then you have to spend a lot of time to get it out of people's memory. Therefore, there are no secrets, just a tradition. I have two well-known projects, they are now known, just nobody knows that I own them, because I believe that they have not yet reached the level where you can show your horrible face because of these projects and say: " This is also me". Because there is still a risk, although they are already quite well-known, successful, there is still a risk that I will not take the positions that should be, and in this case it is better to be anonymous. Just have some boy who has managed. When you look, the young man says: “See how well I get a new project.” And if the boy is still speaking, he gives interviews to famous newspapers and news that: “Yes, indeed, I tried, I was in it.” And you know what else is very important - this is an element of competition. Why? Because now the market is turning into a fairly tough real market, and if you jerk somewhere, competitors will immediately go there. And we have our own for each level. I see what they are doing alone, but I would not want my ideas to go to some companies before I eat them.

Mikhail: That is, competitors do not know what it is you?

Hermann: No. What for? If they knew, they would have behaved completely differently. And so they even cute smile, clap him on the shoulder, offer to buy, by the way. That is, come, negotiate, I give advice, instruct what to answer. There, in general, such interesting moments.

Mikhail: If I understand correctly, then most of the income is based on the advertising model of your projects.

Hermann: Well, yes, I have nothing more, just advertising.

Mikhail: And you have a contextual advertising system, and again, I suspect that you are a fairly strong expert in this matter. It is interesting to know your point of view on the ideal advertising of the future, where advertising should evolve, and what it should turn into. Maybe some ways of targeting new or what?

Herman: You know, there is such a translation system when it depends on man-hours. That is, linguists appear, there is such a term - “asshole”. First of all, it cannot become ideal tomorrow, because something needs to be worked out, the same with targeting, which is happening now. First, these are two processes. The first, no matter how ridiculous, is the advertiser, the advertiser's demand, the second is the technical possibilities of our deals. For example, we were the first to do a large study, I have a Ph.D. We were the first to do, in general, at that moment it seemed crazy: to determine the sex of a person by behavior. Well, the gender of the person on the behavior, yes? And the idea itself sounds simple: if a person was looking for a time machine, then clearly such an element was older than forty. With tolerances, there is always a chance, but there are some queries that ...

Michael: Metric now also introduced its algorithm recently.

Hermann: Yes. About two years ago we started all this, but the fact is that we are going further. It took a very long time. The fact is that advertisers (you will laugh) are actually very, how to say, bone people. That is, some habits, and the introduction of a new one is very hard. Now the demographics are consumed very well. We have now launched solvency. In principle, again on search queries, on visited sites. It is built brick on brick, you can not make your portrait tomorrow. When we are afraid that the same Facebook knows everything about you. He has everything in the data, but he cannot yet aggregate them. In fact, specifically about you need to know everything, either in the FSB or your wife. And the value of targeted systems is in bulk, for example, to give out all the directors of an enterprise. Accordingly, we need for some criteria. There, no one asks for 100% probability, at least 80% probability to issue. The question here is ... Two sides: advertisers are advertiser demand and site trust, and the second is that it all overlaps. That is, all development gradually accumulate, overlay, and gradually we grow. I think that we are just waiting for us ... You see, we already, in principle, know about every person. If a person spends more than two hours a day on the Internet, then tell him who he is - a boy, a girl, if he is sorry, for example, a homosexual, that is, his behavior is female, well, as they say, for him, then advertisers do not care will be female. There are no contradictions here, how you behave, you will consume such advertising. And now on the sites on which we explore, 40 percent of advertising is already behavioral. The one that is determined by the behavior of people, and it is clear that it will be further ... That is, the formats are well-known to everyone, nothing new and revolutionary will happen - this is the context, the media, but they will not show the media ... A revolution is when there will be a network on your cable television, look for suburban real estate from your computer, and you will see a embedded media ad, a video not of beer, of some “Fat Man”, but of some foreign real estate. Everything goes to the fact that the technologies are integrated, merge, they simply cannot merge in one day. But, in general, it all goes to some kind of single pool of input. That is, a new standard will appear, but it will live long enough, I think, because so far there is nothing more in the field of any regular research.

Mikhail: Accordingly, the statistics service is largely needed for this research in the advertising field?

Herman: There is for advertising. In fact, it does not matter who will use the statistics: I will use them, someone will buy them from me, because requests to buy data regularly come in - this is one part. And the second part is the demand of e-Commerce for analytics, for reports, for people's behavior, because they finally understood that in normal life it is impossible to add cookies to a customer, so that he would go around the store, and you would know little Does he still go to the next, right? And on the Internet it is possible to do everything. Accordingly, you can see your regular customers, and they simply shovel. Therefore, those stores that have now realized the profitability of this, but ... Well, imagine: you do not have offices, you have nothing, there are data, in my opinion, they are non-public (I just know by chance). For example, if I take the company Euroset, 7% of sales go through the Internet. 7%! 4000 points, 7% of sales go through the Internet. And the children's shops, I have just launched a children's store recently, we just move somewhere, work out the technology, remember how it all happened a long time ago. The well-known large Internet shop is 500-600 deliveries per day. You see, it is a lot. 500-600 deliveries: you don’t have an office, you don’t have a flow of people, you don’t depend on, you don’t need to open an office on Tverskaya-Yamskaya, you don’t need to open an office on Kutuzovsky Prospekt (passages). You have been branded, and you have 500-600 - that's a lot. As a matter of fact, the main demand now is for various types of targeting: sell us accountants, sell us programmers. Someone’s bank has recently said that he has the best mortgage clients - they are accountants: “Sell us accountants, we want accountants, we are ready to pay any money for accountants.” And advertisers are in demand, and e-commerce.

Mikhail: Why don't the search services statistics services use these public data opportunities? They need statistics for search purposes, it turns out?

Hermann: Here the problem of large companies in all aspects, of course, search engines, in the first place, need metrics to improve their own issuance, because this is their specific money. Whatever they do, their main task is to monitor where people go: from the first link they went five passes, from the second - ten, something else, something else. It’s not a fact that it is good, because the story of behavioral targeting is already known, the well-known optimization firm was, which ...

Michael: Well, yes. I even thought about this algorithm, how it all ...

Hermann: It's famous, it worked well. Ended up having suffered several thousand offices.

Michael: Through the proxy, when do the clicks do?

Hermann: No, no, it's about something else. Yandex or Google is looking: for example, you entered “Plastic windows”, clicked on the first link, looked at something, spent two minutes on the site, on the second link ...
Michael: That is, a refund?

Hermann: Yes. And on the third you spent 20 minutes on the site. You are interested. So, we put a tick on ourselves that the third site is a good one. For this site should be some kind of feedback. So, in fact, you can write special programs that will somehow cheat (this is called pre-twist behavioral targeting). Everyone has already figured out the clicks a long time ago, this is a well-known topic - clicking.

And here's another behavior ... By what search queries come to this store? For this you need complete data. The only question is what is possible, we have here ... You know how banks are divided in the West: there are universal in America, but in general there are always ... There is a concept: only mortgage banks, only banks that handle cash settlement services, only land ticket office, as in Germany. Why? Because Yandex simultaneously occupies both a niche of statistics, and a niche of search engines, and they complement themselves. And here it is not very clear how all this can be integrated when the object affects the event. That is, the event spins itself. People begin to wind the metric in order to get the result of a good issuing of Yandex. It becomes such a closed loop. But history will judge.

In fact, now the clients are sitting, and it is clear from the statistics that they use the statistics more and more, more and more. Because it turned out that they need it, this is money, and they have learned how to earn this money. As soon as they learned to make money, they immediately show interest in all such things.

Michael: How many servers does LiveInternet work with, exactly what is it?

Hermann: We have just bought a new one big car. Once we all lived on one thing. Now we are processing about 6 billion hits per day, six very simple machines for each. And now we bought ... it would just be interesting there, we would buy some kind of wonderful server, though, of course, not for 50 thousand dollars, but for 8 thousand. Here we can work on one machine, but, apparently, now we’ve got two more times ... because there is a concept of reliability. This is our old argument with SpyLOG, when ... If you have low operating costs, then you can live longer. You should then write in low-level programming languages, your development will go on longer. It just takes me a month to make some changes to the statistics.

Michael: What are you writing to C?

Hermann: Yes, we write on it. And with one and a half, for example, PHP will be written.And it seems that changes can be made in a day, but at the same time we have, say, 100 servers. It was a long time ago, I don’t know how many SpyLOG servers are there now. And there is always an old struggle between: getting a result today, or we are playing and experiencing everybody for a long time. It’s not a fact that sometimes we “experience everyone” is the right strategy. Why?Because business must change, develop. In this aspect, we now have eight servers under statistics. Six of them, they are very similar, I brought it from America in due time. I myself ordered six hundred dollar servers for hosting. There are boxes left, the processor itself is put cheap. Not because we are economical, you know, we work like that. Well, what can we do if Maxim managed to squeeze 1 billion processing hits from the server. This is a lot.That is, we process 6 billion, but each server processes a hit - a billion. How he does it, I don’t know, I try not to even think about it, because, suddenly, you will think and he will stop. Like a caterpillar: walked, walked, walked and everything got up. And so our path was not extensive, but intense, within ourselves. And we somehow managed to ... That is, on the one hand, it does not allow to enter reports with the proper speed, as they should have been entered, we sometimes slow down with this. But from the point of view of reliability, cost, and as a result, and competition, when you do not have monthly costs, it is conditional, like SpyLOG. Because when 100 servers, 200 is a lot, they always fail. There should be five system administrators, programmers, synchronization. It is easier to repair.

Michael:The larger the network, the greater the maintenance costs.

Herman: Well, yes. There is no answer to the question: “Which strategy is correct?” Judging, at least, by survival, at the current moment the answer is me, that is, I am right. But on the other hand, if we look specifically from the point of view of personal incomes, the owner of SpyLOG sold the project ...

Mikhail: to Masterhost, yes?

Hermann: No. It was already sold to Masterhost when it was all very bad. That's when Andreev went, he very successfully sold SpyLOG and went on. That is, they “runner” then did, then he sold the “runner”. On the one hand, we can say that SpyLOG built and fell, and here I am - LiveInternet, on average, I move like that. But only cumulatively when, you know, the area under the picture, the level of earnings, which is higher, turns out, right? But I think that my strategy is more accurate, but I myself am also the owner, myself and the director. It is very important.And there have always been shareholders. So here ...

Michael: Now you do not write anything?

Herman: In order to somehow maintain the level of communication with programmers ... No, well, why? Writing. Now I myself am writing an economic toy - this is such a hobby for me. Once upon a time I played in the City, and now I am writing something like this MMORPG, in different versions. First, I write in PHP, I will rewrite it, naturally, on axes, because such things do not survive on something. But in order to be able to speak with programmers in a language that is peculiar to them, this is not really for the fact that I love them very much - it greatly reduces costs. When you talk to a person, you realize that incompetence leads not only to hiring incompetent people, but also to increasing costs. Therefore, it is necessary to follow, because not only programming languages ​​change, equipment changes very much. When we started, I remember now, List.ru - this is the year 1999, the 2000th. On the one hand, it’s far away - 11 years, on the other hand, in fact, by the standards of any business, this is very little. We had a Pentium and 512 Mb of RAM, now I have a machine for one of the projects - there are 64 Gb of RAM. Inexpensive bought, and everything, please. Yet this is necessary to know, because everything affects the cost of the final output. And you also want to have fun, to combine everything. Do not overstrain at work, calmly move, calmly develop, have already had a chance. Therefore, constantly trying to ... And in general, it is well known that if you stop learning, exactly on the day when you stop learning, you can close a business, sell and live in Bali, for example. But I still don’t want to, or rather, I want to, but for the time being, children are growing up, still small.in fact, by the standards of any business it is very small. We had a Pentium and 512 Mb of RAM, now I have a machine for one of the projects - there are 64 Gb of RAM. Inexpensive bought, and everything, please. Yet this is necessary to know, because everything affects the cost of the final output. And you also want to have fun, to combine everything. Do not overstrain at work, calmly move, calmly develop, have already had a chance. Therefore, constantly trying to ... And in general, it is well known that if you stop learning, exactly on the day when you stop learning, you can close a business, sell and live in Bali, for example. But I still don’t want to, or rather, I want to, but for the time being, children are growing up, still small.in fact, by the standards of any business it is very small. We had a Pentium and 512 Mb of RAM, now I have a machine for one of the projects - there are 64 Gb of RAM. Inexpensive bought, and everything, please. Yet this is necessary to know, because everything affects the cost of the final output. And you also want to have fun, to combine everything. Do not overstrain at work, calmly move, calmly develop, have already had a chance. Therefore, constantly trying to ... And in general, it is well known that if you stop learning, exactly on the day when you stop learning, you can close a business, sell and live in Bali, for example. But I still don’t want to, or rather, I want to, but for the time being, children are growing up, still small.Inexpensive bought, and everything, please. Yet this is necessary to know, because everything affects the cost of the final output. And you also want to have fun, to combine everything. Do not overstrain at work, calmly move, calmly develop, have already had a chance. Therefore, constantly trying to ... And in general, it is well known that if you stop learning, exactly on the day when you stop learning, you can close a business, sell and live in Bali, for example. But I still don’t want to, or rather, I want to, but for the time being, children are growing up, still small.Inexpensive bought, and everything, please. Yet this is necessary to know, because everything affects the cost of the final output. And you also want to have fun, to combine everything. Do not overstrain at work, calmly move, calmly develop, have already had a chance. Therefore, constantly trying to ... And in general, it is well known that if you stop learning, exactly on the day when you stop learning, you can close a business, sell and live in Bali, for example. But I still don’t want to, or rather, I want to, but for the time being, children are growing up, still small.that if you stop learning, exactly on the day when you stop learning, you can close a business, sell and live in Bali, for example. But I still don’t want to, or rather, I want to, but for the time being, children are growing up, still small.that if you stop learning, exactly on the day when you stop learning, you can close a business, sell and live in Bali, for example. But I still don’t want to, or rather, I want to, but for the time being, children are growing up, still small.

Michael: You started at the very birth of the Internet. The Internet of the nineties is very different from the current?

German: Yes, of course, very much.

Michael: Was he subject to that social order? ..

Herman:You see, we are now at Startup Point-s all sorts of varied, insignificant, as I call them, get the effect of the nineties: finally it came to the giraffe. It is known, for example, from financiers, when people start buying Gazprom shares, they need to be sold immediately. For 10 years I have been chasing after all these gentlemen from different fields: from banks, from newspapers, from the media. I remember my dialogue with the “Moscow Komsomol”, I do not remember who I was working at that time. They convinced me that if they developed on the Internet, they would lose subscribers. And I said that: “Guys, you will lose subscribers in any case, just in any case. But you will either lose them, but you will gain (as now Vedomosti and Kommersant live), or you will lose them, but the site will not acquire them either. ” And now we are reaping that now everyone rushed to the Internet. Finally happiness happenedyou know? In fact, seriously, I'm telling you. I literally yesterday came a client who says: "Herman, I want to do business with you." I say: “Great, great. I have money. ” I say, the colossal thing has changed - we, the Internet users, have money. We don’t need anyone else, we don’t need ... When they come in with Startup Point, few people guess ... Imagine one simple thought, imagine for a moment: now all Yandex employees have money that is meaningful, all Google employees any meaningful money is there, all Mail.ru employees have any meaningful money. I have money, hundreds of people have money on the Internet. Professionals have money, unlike, say, from 1998-2000, 2001. What may be startups? Imagine for a moment. Yes, no,Of course, we already bought everything. Therefore, I do not know what is happening at Startup Point, which is right there, when Arkady collects from them and someone else collects. I mean, in the nineties, the Internet was, you know, beautiful. How was he beautiful? There was no money. We drank vodka together, we exchanged ideas, we helped each other. Imagine: two bankers met and help each other - clients have changed. This is a famous story, as “Finam” became “Finam”, the most famous famous story. If you interview those who were in those “hedgehogs”, in my opinion, in the second or third year of the “hedgehogs” existence, the nomination “Financial Website of the Year” is informational, put forward to “Finam”. And, the media, “Financial Media of the Year”, is put forward by “Finam”. And I seem to be out of business, I say: “Guys, are you completely out of touch?” That is, in general, “Finam” is a brokerage office.“Finam” was there, you can say a lot, who is a genius, whether Remsch is a genius, or if someone else is a genius. The boy who worked in Finam was brilliant, I don’t remember his last name, who came to Komsomolskaya Pravda and said: “Let's exchange links with you?”. Ponder brokerage company. We are now ridiculous to hysterics, right? "Finam" comes, says: "Give me, I have a news feed, let's go, I put on you, and you - on me." “Komsomolskaya Pravda” says: “Well, let's switch links. We have an exchange with “Komsomolskaya Pravda”, we are changing even with Politonline, with the AIF, - all those who were then in full bloom. And Finam has 20,000 visitors, who, of course, are beginning to be converted anyway into customers. Further ... I can not say anything, Remsha - well done: with a runner, with Mamba. But the initial stage of formation,you know, at the heart of any successful business lies crime. Crime, I mean, moral, so to speak. That is, “Finam”, relatively speaking, acted extremely unconventionally. And it was the nineties, when people did not understand what was happening, there was no money. When there was no money, you know, without money, friendship becomes: dumplings are sweeter, vodka is better. When the money comes ... I do not remember when the media people were going to the last time. Here, 30-40 people, we sailed on the boat, like 200 people. We were collecting 500 rubles there - we swam, everything was sincere, gorgeous and just great. And now try to collect everyone - everyone starts their parties. Imagine the story when Yandex will conflict with Google, one will be, one will be CIB, the second will be RIF or arrange a show with a discrepancy - at that time it was simply impossible,because everyone was fine, there was no money. As soon as money appeared - we had interests, as soon as interests appeared, we began to share: and you are on friendly terms with Yandex or with Debt, or Mail. Mail buys, conditionally, ROEC, yes?

So now it turns into a regular business, completely without any ... it looks all simpler, nobody puts on suits, nobody puts on ties as before, because this is a business style like that, but it turns into a completely ordinary business with lawyers, by the courts. That is, it is unrealistic to imagine that someone would sue me from Internet users. It is unrealistic, it is impossible. Open now the arbitration practice, enter there the name of all ours, that's who is suing who. We ourselves are suing ourselves: someone took a photo from someone, someone didn’t give content to someone, something else, something else, something else. This has not happened before. And it is clear that it’s not that there wasn’t such a thing before, and the Internet 10 years ago wasn’t a business; Now it has become a business, everything has become as usual for everyone.

Mikhail: But so that this rash of vulgarity from the word "startup" a little bit to clean up so that you would advise the young specialist?

Hermann:You know, the right advice began to break through two years ago - to go to work at Mail.ru. The fact is that (once again, it is very important) imagine for a moment that the time of people who could do something ... Well, look, 15–20 years ago in Moscow it was possible to make a night shop, and you’ll have a cool supermarket first . Now it is impossible to make one store, you need to immediately make a network, you alone can’t do anything. In Moscow there is the most famous tavern. The American farmer took 10 thousand dollars, arrived, in those days bought a room for 10 thousand dollars - the tavern still lives, but these times have already passed. There are memories of them, they are shown on TV. Klimenko speaks, talks about how he did the first startup: he bought a domain in List.ru, and here he was all amused. But I'm sorry, circumstances have changed a lotpeople have changed very much, money has changed, incomes have changed. Now, in order to do something yourself, you know, I will say a sad thing now, maybe a brilliant one; now 10 years ago it was enough for one to buy a domain (because nobody needed it), and the second for a programmer who worked in Bank system administrator, write some program - so we got Rambler, for example.

The history of the List is not much different. I worked at Rossiysky Kredit, I took the programmers, used them in half, and hired five dollars for the guides, because there was no money at all. That is such a concept: on the Internet money was paid - nobody paid. But this is not a business. Therefore, now advise the young man nothing but knowledge. That is, relatively speaking, I would say sadly that, with a probability of 99.9%, that young man who sits in front of me does not need to lose his time, he does not need to engage in intellectual masturbation, to dream that he will become Pavel Durov because Pavel Durov ... This young man just does not remember that Pavel Durov has shareholders who gave him money. And Pavel Durov, if there were no money in the company itself, people still invested money there,and not one million dollars in the basic creation. Nothing will be free for him, nothing will work. That is, now one person is not enough to do something.

And worse than that, what else people come who think that they graduated from the Higher School of Economics and they know the economic principles. If the Internet is still ... You understand, you will not assume that you can become a successful lawyer without completing a legal one. This is silly at least. That is, we understand with our fingers that I am a young student, I graduated from the school of economics, I understand that I will not create a dental clinic. No, I can create something, we do not choose options: I took money from my father, and my father Abramovich. We take some simple options. Dentists will send you to one place, right? You do not know either the equipment or the subject, you do not understand what costs and costs are there, you just like everything right instantly.

The Internet is now the same situation. 10 years ago it would be possible. But Klimenko’s businessman (if Anton isn’t going to open it now), he can remember the story when 12 years ago in 1998 with Theme Lebedev in Akuba they explained to me that: “Hera, the Internet is such a strange thing. There is nowhere such a business, but here it is. It is clearly divided into us, such as we and such as you. You pay money because you are a businessman. You will never understand what is happening on the Internet. You give ... "I am very exaggerating, but the meaning was like this. It was such a sacred truth, which is with the stage.

And then it could be changed, then it was possible to freak out and say: "This is a penny." The fact is that the cost of the error was a cheap one. The entire List.ru cost $ 300 a month, relatively speaking, at the time of its creation, and maybe $ 400. By the time we started making money, let's say I had 2.5 pieces of dollars, but this was part of my technical errors when I worked in Russian Credit.

Now such a focus will not pass even nearby, because the cost of raising normal projects becomes already transcendent for the average person. Therefore, we must clearly understand that this young man who looks at me ... For example, to be honest, my son has every chance, it is logical. Well, if my son comes now, let's say, the 18-year-old somewhere out there and say: "And I want to do such a project." Dad will come down from the mountain and something will help. That is, those things that are obvious and normal to me, which cost me nothing, for others, of course, will cost a huge dough.

And he really can still succeed. And on this basis, people will look at all this and say: “Look, Klimenko Jura has succeeded, he has a good project. So, accordingly, it is possible. " That is, and it confuses poor children, instead of going into business, I don’t know there: drill, stitch, guard something. They go and begin to engage in marasmus, that is, to buy brochures “How to get money from an investor”, to spend your time in Pricewaterhouse, in banks, to waste money and just lose your own time. This is a pessimistic speech for me, such as funeral. (Laughs.)

Mikhail: Well, this is a known fact. And vice versa, with this program we just want to destroy this illusion that, in principle, we have to go to work.

Hermann:It is useless. You see, until then ... the Internet, unfortunately, got ... Here there is football, women and politics, which every man understands, and the Internet got there too. That is, we are all in Odnoklassniki, we can deliver a loan. That is, you know, when the director of a metallurgical plant comes to me, he knows everything about the Internet, he himself in Odnoklassniki, what are we? Repainted in green - ok, let's go. What do you explain to him that this is not so? That is, that business would not be worth a lot of money if it were not for some circumstances. Some professional knowledge should be. People for some reason do not want to understand this, and yet this is some kind of ...

The Internet is another plus - the number of stories. You see, in fact, here I am now ... Remember? Do not remember ... Hear, read? The "gold rush", when the whole world rode on Klondike, they had hope. They were dying, but there was hope, do you understand? And then I come and say: “Guys, there is no hope, calm down. That's just it is not there and everything, she died, because this industry has closed. " Just as the Klondike was closed once, the “Internet” branch was closed. All, it is not. Go to Vietnam, there are now, by the way, several of our Russian companies that are moving somewhere in Vietnam. In Honduras, in Ecuador.

Mikhail: Well, besides Igor Ashmanov, who else?

Hermann:There is someone else there. People are working, Igor is a non-greedy person, he shares, he suggests how, where, what, and in Vietnam he also prompts. But the point is that - everything, the industry has almost cemented. Here everyone who takes any places, there will not be any sharp moves between VKontakte and Yandex. Imagine that now there will be a new project that breaks through, it will be bought right at the root, it will not even be allowed to rise, it will simply be bought. Either slaughtered like a bull in a slaughterhouse, or integrated into itself. And I think that this property is already on the Internet like this ...

Mikhail: Thank you very much for the answers, very interesting. I wish you success.

Herman: Thank you.