Interview with Linus Torvalds
Watch a 12-minute interview with Linus Torvalds, the creator of the Linux operating system, on Canadian television channel TVO .
The interview is old, taken at the Linux Expo Toronto conference in 2000. Presenter - Paula Todd. Linus Torvalds, who came to the conference in Toronto, talks about himself, about programming, why Linux was a success, about his family.
Paula: I was so surprised when you entered and sat down, because what I expected, having heard all this talk about you ... People who love computers speak about you as if you are God, and you want to say that are you just an ordinary guy?
')
Linus: Yes, I forgot my halo at home. (Both laugh). No, I'm an ordinary guy. I was just doing the right thing, and I enjoyed doing it. And many people liked what I did, and they liked how I did it. What computers were then ... This colossal machine of commerce, and computer manufacturers are usually viewed as immoral and unethical, they are just all light. And Linux has become to some extent a breath of fresh air.
Paula: The program we call Linux, when did it appear?
Linus: Basically Linux was created in 1991, I was studying at the university then. I wanted to create for myself at home the same environment that I had at the university, and I could not get it. By this time I was already programming half my life, so it was quite natural for me, and I always did that - if I couldn't get something, I programmed it myself.
Paula: How old were you then?
Linus: I was twenty-one.
Paula: Twenty-one ...
Linus: University student in Helsinki.
Paula: Did you feel that you were creating something extraordinary?
Linus: In terms of what Linux has become today, no. But I knew that I was doing something that I really liked, and something important for myself. I have always had projects that I worked on. And it was just another project of creating something that I wanted to have on my computer.
Paula: Some people think that the reason you started working on this program and developing it was because you didn’t like Windows. Whether this program itself, or the nature of this company.
Linus: It really isn't. I knew that I did not want Windows on my computer. Remember, it was 1991. Windows 3.0, Windows 3.1. By that time I had been working with computers for 10 years. I worked with more powerful computers than PCs, I worked with weaker computers. I never really really worked with DOS, and I knew that I wasn’t interested in DOS. It was not some kind of hatred for Microsoft, I just wanted to do something that was better and more convenient for me.
Paula: Some people ask why, after you developed Linux, you didn’t go the standard way - an IPO, millions of dollars. Then a billionaire would sit in front of me, and now he sits in front of me - who?
Linus: Well, I'm a wealthy person. I did not participate in the commercialization of Linux, but many of the companies that are involved in this, wanted to demonstrate that they appreciate my contribution, so I was able to buy a house for myself, mostly with this money.
Paula: In California?
Linus: In California.
Paula: I know it's not so easy to do.
Linus: It's not easy. A year ago, I did not even hope for it. So I'm not starving. And at that time ... I'm just not the same as these IPO guys. I grew up in a different culture in Finland. And I came from a university environment. And let's tell the truth, ten years ago, Linux was not even close to what it has become now.
Paula: Knowing what you know now, do you think you could commercialize Linux then make some money on it?
Linus: No. Knowing what I know now, I can say that exactly what I did by Linux with an open source project allowed the whole project to come true. A much bigger role than technology was played by the fact that so many people were able to attract work. Because they loved this project, they loved the challenges they were set for, they loved this technology, and they thought it was important. And all this would not have happened without the open source approach. And besides the fact that this would not have happened, this project could not become what it has become - much more than just a product - a wonderful experience, a community of people who have received a lot of pleasure. This is a much more pleasant, much more humane community than what you can see around most other computer projects.
Paula: What are you thinking of that? Two thoughts. First, there are people who make money on Linux. They create something based on it. How do you feel about the fact that people take your ideas that you gave to the world and earn money from it?
Linus: At the beginning, back in 1992, when it started, on a very small, of course, scale, I was a little bit worried about it. What changed my point of view is that all these commercial enterprises, both former and those that exist now, all led to an improvement in the system.
Paula: What about other computer companies, other companies that make huge money on their discoveries? You look like such a computer Robin Hood, who says: "This is something worthwhile, and let us all use it." Do you think more companies should do the same?
Linus: I think more companies will do that. To a large extent, computer companies live in a kind of Wild West, where you explore new areas and strive to take advantage of favorable conditions. This period is far from over. But I think that people are beginning to understand that something is distorted here, they understand the existing rules of the game, and where the story is going.
I think programming is a wonderful profession. Partly because you get paid for it, but it is still an art, a kind of fusion of science and art, like architecture. And this is one of those technological areas today where an individual can significantly influence the situation. Programming to such an extent is an art that it cannot be automated. And I do not think that big companies do art better than small ones.
Paula: Do you consider yourself really very talented? When they tell you that you are a computer genius, what do you think about it?
Linus: What I'm doing, I'm doing really well. Part of my work, let's face it, is not just programming. I'm a good programmer, perhaps a pretty good programmer. But in fact, what made Linux so qualitative is that I was able to establish communication between people. This is a rather rare quality for a programmer. Usually they are considered crazy on programming, without family, all these stamps ...
Paula: I didn't say that (both laugh).
Linus: Well, you didn't say that. And I was able to work with others. I do not think this is genius. You must have certain personal qualities.
Paula: May I ask your advice? Computers gave the world so much, first of all, new opportunities for communication, but computers also brought with them new opportunities to spy and interfere in private life. What advice would you give on how to make the Internet and computer systems more secure?
Linus: Whatever technology you design, you must develop appropriate security measures. If you are developing a car, it must have airbags to guarantee protection in case of an accident. The same is true of computers.
People are so worried about this, because computers are a relatively new technology, and its entire infrastructure is not yet taken for granted. She is not always present. Similarly, forty years ago, cars did not have all the safety features that are standard today.
Paula: So do you believe, and I completely trust your answer to this question, do you believe that in the future we will be able to develop security measures that will adequately protect privacy?
Linus: I firmly believe that we will have secure systems. They will never be one hundred percent safe. People still die in car accidents.
Paula: Someone can open regular paper letters.
Linus: You're right. We cannot achieve 100% security. But I think that computers just have the potential to make many things much more personal and protected.
Paula: What is your reaction when you hear that someone creates viruses that destroy information on computers?
Linus: I think that in this whole story with the Filipino kid, or whoever created the “Love Bug”, it would be so one-sided to blame this man. He absolutely did not intend to do what came out of it. He really wanted to make a virus, but he didn’t imagine what this could ultimately end up with. We are talking about one person, probably a teenager, who simply did not understand the consequences of his actions.
Paula: Just like when you created Linux, did you know what it would lead to?
Linus: Of course. And at the same time, everyone ignores the fact that, first of all, the systems should not have been so unprotected. If you blame a particular person after all this, it means that you are just trying to find a scapegoat. Yes, it is true that he started all this, and he probably should be fined or even get a prison sentence. He will never be able to pay 11 billion dollars in which some of the less intelligent people estimated the damage from his actions. It is foolish and ridiculous even to suggest that he should be responsible for everything that happened, and this is precisely what most of the press says - that this is his fault. This is not his fault. Infrastructure collapsed. Computer networks should not behave this way. And one should not be surprised that this virus has hit Microsoft computers most of all, because it is not a company that would be famous in the field of security.
Paula: Linus, do you have a family?
Linus: I have a family.
Paula: Wife?
Linus: I have a life, I have a wife, two small children.
Paula: How old are your children?
Linus: Three and a half and two years old.
Paula: Are they already sitting at computers?
Linus: No, they are not sitting at computers yet.
Paula: When are you going to let them go to the computer so that they understand what is happening there?
Linus: As soon as they want to. So far, they are quite happy sitting next to me when I work at the computer. One of them often comes up and dials something on a nearby keyboard, which is not really connected to anything, and that’s all they know about computers right now. I do not think you should study computers in three years. It wasn’t that easy when I started studying computers, and I was then eleven years old. They are likely to start communicating on a daily basis with a computer by the time they are seven or eight years old, and I think I will understand when they really need a computer.
Paula: You say that you are an ordinary guy who just bought a house, a wife and children, not a genius. And while you're here in Toronto, at a Linux conference, and people stand in line to look at you, because they really think that you are God's gift to the computer world. What do you feel about it?
Linus: It's nice. Let's tell the truth, everyone wants to do something meaningful, everyone wants to become a superman in childhood. When I was a teenager, I wanted to become a famous scientist. In fact, this does not bother me, because such things happen only at conferences. When I'm at home, I'm just an ordinary guy who, as it happens, works with computers.
Paula: Linus Torvalds, thank you for being with us.
Linus: Thank you.
The interview is old, taken at the Linux Expo Toronto conference in 2000. Presenter - Paula Todd. Linus Torvalds, who came to the conference in Toronto, talks about himself, about programming, why Linux was a success, about his family.
Paula: I was so surprised when you entered and sat down, because what I expected, having heard all this talk about you ... People who love computers speak about you as if you are God, and you want to say that are you just an ordinary guy?
')
Linus: Yes, I forgot my halo at home. (Both laugh). No, I'm an ordinary guy. I was just doing the right thing, and I enjoyed doing it. And many people liked what I did, and they liked how I did it. What computers were then ... This colossal machine of commerce, and computer manufacturers are usually viewed as immoral and unethical, they are just all light. And Linux has become to some extent a breath of fresh air.
Paula: The program we call Linux, when did it appear?
Linus: Basically Linux was created in 1991, I was studying at the university then. I wanted to create for myself at home the same environment that I had at the university, and I could not get it. By this time I was already programming half my life, so it was quite natural for me, and I always did that - if I couldn't get something, I programmed it myself.
Paula: How old were you then?
Linus: I was twenty-one.
Paula: Twenty-one ...
Linus: University student in Helsinki.
Paula: Did you feel that you were creating something extraordinary?
Linus: In terms of what Linux has become today, no. But I knew that I was doing something that I really liked, and something important for myself. I have always had projects that I worked on. And it was just another project of creating something that I wanted to have on my computer.
Paula: Some people think that the reason you started working on this program and developing it was because you didn’t like Windows. Whether this program itself, or the nature of this company.
Linus: It really isn't. I knew that I did not want Windows on my computer. Remember, it was 1991. Windows 3.0, Windows 3.1. By that time I had been working with computers for 10 years. I worked with more powerful computers than PCs, I worked with weaker computers. I never really really worked with DOS, and I knew that I wasn’t interested in DOS. It was not some kind of hatred for Microsoft, I just wanted to do something that was better and more convenient for me.
Paula: Some people ask why, after you developed Linux, you didn’t go the standard way - an IPO, millions of dollars. Then a billionaire would sit in front of me, and now he sits in front of me - who?
Linus: Well, I'm a wealthy person. I did not participate in the commercialization of Linux, but many of the companies that are involved in this, wanted to demonstrate that they appreciate my contribution, so I was able to buy a house for myself, mostly with this money.
Paula: In California?
Linus: In California.
Paula: I know it's not so easy to do.
Linus: It's not easy. A year ago, I did not even hope for it. So I'm not starving. And at that time ... I'm just not the same as these IPO guys. I grew up in a different culture in Finland. And I came from a university environment. And let's tell the truth, ten years ago, Linux was not even close to what it has become now.
Paula: Knowing what you know now, do you think you could commercialize Linux then make some money on it?
Linus: No. Knowing what I know now, I can say that exactly what I did by Linux with an open source project allowed the whole project to come true. A much bigger role than technology was played by the fact that so many people were able to attract work. Because they loved this project, they loved the challenges they were set for, they loved this technology, and they thought it was important. And all this would not have happened without the open source approach. And besides the fact that this would not have happened, this project could not become what it has become - much more than just a product - a wonderful experience, a community of people who have received a lot of pleasure. This is a much more pleasant, much more humane community than what you can see around most other computer projects.
Paula: What are you thinking of that? Two thoughts. First, there are people who make money on Linux. They create something based on it. How do you feel about the fact that people take your ideas that you gave to the world and earn money from it?
Linus: At the beginning, back in 1992, when it started, on a very small, of course, scale, I was a little bit worried about it. What changed my point of view is that all these commercial enterprises, both former and those that exist now, all led to an improvement in the system.
Paula: What about other computer companies, other companies that make huge money on their discoveries? You look like such a computer Robin Hood, who says: "This is something worthwhile, and let us all use it." Do you think more companies should do the same?
Linus: I think more companies will do that. To a large extent, computer companies live in a kind of Wild West, where you explore new areas and strive to take advantage of favorable conditions. This period is far from over. But I think that people are beginning to understand that something is distorted here, they understand the existing rules of the game, and where the story is going.
I think programming is a wonderful profession. Partly because you get paid for it, but it is still an art, a kind of fusion of science and art, like architecture. And this is one of those technological areas today where an individual can significantly influence the situation. Programming to such an extent is an art that it cannot be automated. And I do not think that big companies do art better than small ones.
Paula: Do you consider yourself really very talented? When they tell you that you are a computer genius, what do you think about it?
Linus: What I'm doing, I'm doing really well. Part of my work, let's face it, is not just programming. I'm a good programmer, perhaps a pretty good programmer. But in fact, what made Linux so qualitative is that I was able to establish communication between people. This is a rather rare quality for a programmer. Usually they are considered crazy on programming, without family, all these stamps ...
Paula: I didn't say that (both laugh).
Linus: Well, you didn't say that. And I was able to work with others. I do not think this is genius. You must have certain personal qualities.
Paula: May I ask your advice? Computers gave the world so much, first of all, new opportunities for communication, but computers also brought with them new opportunities to spy and interfere in private life. What advice would you give on how to make the Internet and computer systems more secure?
Linus: Whatever technology you design, you must develop appropriate security measures. If you are developing a car, it must have airbags to guarantee protection in case of an accident. The same is true of computers.
People are so worried about this, because computers are a relatively new technology, and its entire infrastructure is not yet taken for granted. She is not always present. Similarly, forty years ago, cars did not have all the safety features that are standard today.
Paula: So do you believe, and I completely trust your answer to this question, do you believe that in the future we will be able to develop security measures that will adequately protect privacy?
Linus: I firmly believe that we will have secure systems. They will never be one hundred percent safe. People still die in car accidents.
Paula: Someone can open regular paper letters.
Linus: You're right. We cannot achieve 100% security. But I think that computers just have the potential to make many things much more personal and protected.
Paula: What is your reaction when you hear that someone creates viruses that destroy information on computers?
Linus: I think that in this whole story with the Filipino kid, or whoever created the “Love Bug”, it would be so one-sided to blame this man. He absolutely did not intend to do what came out of it. He really wanted to make a virus, but he didn’t imagine what this could ultimately end up with. We are talking about one person, probably a teenager, who simply did not understand the consequences of his actions.
Paula: Just like when you created Linux, did you know what it would lead to?
Linus: Of course. And at the same time, everyone ignores the fact that, first of all, the systems should not have been so unprotected. If you blame a particular person after all this, it means that you are just trying to find a scapegoat. Yes, it is true that he started all this, and he probably should be fined or even get a prison sentence. He will never be able to pay 11 billion dollars in which some of the less intelligent people estimated the damage from his actions. It is foolish and ridiculous even to suggest that he should be responsible for everything that happened, and this is precisely what most of the press says - that this is his fault. This is not his fault. Infrastructure collapsed. Computer networks should not behave this way. And one should not be surprised that this virus has hit Microsoft computers most of all, because it is not a company that would be famous in the field of security.
Paula: Linus, do you have a family?
Linus: I have a family.
Paula: Wife?
Linus: I have a life, I have a wife, two small children.
Paula: How old are your children?
Linus: Three and a half and two years old.
Paula: Are they already sitting at computers?
Linus: No, they are not sitting at computers yet.
Paula: When are you going to let them go to the computer so that they understand what is happening there?
Linus: As soon as they want to. So far, they are quite happy sitting next to me when I work at the computer. One of them often comes up and dials something on a nearby keyboard, which is not really connected to anything, and that’s all they know about computers right now. I do not think you should study computers in three years. It wasn’t that easy when I started studying computers, and I was then eleven years old. They are likely to start communicating on a daily basis with a computer by the time they are seven or eight years old, and I think I will understand when they really need a computer.
Paula: You say that you are an ordinary guy who just bought a house, a wife and children, not a genius. And while you're here in Toronto, at a Linux conference, and people stand in line to look at you, because they really think that you are God's gift to the computer world. What do you feel about it?
Linus: It's nice. Let's tell the truth, everyone wants to do something meaningful, everyone wants to become a superman in childhood. When I was a teenager, I wanted to become a famous scientist. In fact, this does not bother me, because such things happen only at conferences. When I'm at home, I'm just an ordinary guy who, as it happens, works with computers.
Paula: Linus Torvalds, thank you for being with us.
Linus: Thank you.
Source: https://habr.com/ru/post/127887/
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